Has nobody thought of the Consequences of a "no" vote?

[fishtank]

Or we could very well end up on something like minimum wage.

That makes no sense though, If Royal Mail wanted us on "something like minimum wage" why would they offer us 9% over three years and not just put us on "something like minimum wage"?

There are some people on here claiming that no-one has a sensible debate and those posting "facts" just get shot down but in order to debate facts you have to produce facts not pointless hyperbole or unverifiable stories of what Royal Mail wanted/want/might do etc.

There is only one real fact in this whole thing, Royal Mail believe they have an agreement that suits them, they haven't had their hands tied or been forced to cave in to a 70s style old school union sledgehammer because that doesn't exist anymore and certainly not with the CWU.

Royal Mail wanted to offer us this deal, they want us to accept this deal so they obviously believe that this deal is good for the business, good for profits and ultimately good for the shareholders, I can guarantee one thing...If they thought for a minute that going to war and shoving us on "something like minimum wage" would be a better option they would have done it in a heartbeat, no questions asked, no negotiation, nothing.

[pudz1224]

A no vote would mean in the next few years bigger shareholders than us are entitled to reduce costs, now where would start? Us,management?? Sell bits?? I do management will get a cull in the next year. They may already have been told this,we have a fair few off in the slipper ward,with the pink slippers.

[fishtank]

A no vote would mean in the next few years bigger shareholders than us are entitled to reduce costs.

A yes vote won't change that.

[daveyeff]

well the union ''roadshow'' was at ours today. it was pointed out to them that most of us have voted,, and voted no. they said they had not had enough time to get around all the offices to explain the deal. i asked,,1. what happened to ''nothing is agreed until everthing is agreed'' they said it was too complex to agree over delivery issues in the timescale, members wanted the deal pushed through so they agreed too revisit delivery issues to 20 offices in the area. and sort out problems that way.!! 2. is it a no strike deal. ''definately not'' was the reply,,, if differences cannot be resolved, the legal arrangements in place by the best lawyers will be brought in,,,,no it is definately NOT a no strike deal. 3. what if it is a ''NO'' vote, what is plan b.,,, they said they didnt think in anyway, shape, or form that it will be a no. and besides there was NO plan b.???this is the best deal there is.. i shook my head to that one!!. 4. what is royal mails business plan? ,,,,they couldnt comment. all they would say was,, it was in our best interests to accept the deal. if not we could be looking at zero hours contracts, annualised hours, swings and roundabouts working etc. they said the deal had recieved generally good reception at other offices they had visited once it had been explained. it was at this point most of us walked out. am totally pissed at them me.

[drb]

We have seen a list,(and quite comprehensive), on what the "yes" vote means. Those that think this deal offered and negotiated....perhaps we can have a comprehensive list on what THEY would negotiate? Bear in mind that most of the members,(and if you asked them this they would tell you in a secret ballot), that they do not,(or worried) to have national industrial action. Over to you.....(and this is not sarcastic)..it is a genuine question so all facts are there to debate.....

[daveyeff]

i also asked about the boycotting of the dsa,,,, they said that it was ''a legal minefield'' and they would not be on safe ground to carry it out. so what was the point in putting it to us then>>no answer.

[redneck]

The positive consequences of a No include halting of any further degeneration of the farcical length of time it takes to get a ballot paper for industrial action. I cannot believe that a deal which slows up the industrial dispute process even more than the ridiculous legal hurdles already put in place by both Tory and Labour Governments can be any good for the membership. Working together is a fantasy.

[taxi4leighton]

there is no PLAN B

[pudz1224]

So we vote No get shafted somewhere down the line, we vote yes get shafted somewhere down the line. But at least we would get a few extra quid in our pockets. A no vote would just put it right back to square one and we get nothing.We would then become a joke,turning down a 9 percent pay rise over 3 years. Try asking folk in other places how much of a wage increase they are getting? Ive been there 21 years seen it all been out on strike for employee agenda, out on strike for delivery etc. But the harsh realities are that in the current economic climate who can really afford to turn that down? We would get laughed at by joe public,now yes delivery is hard i was in it 3 years ago before i went driving,these issues can be sorted out.

[Lincox]

You are willing to sell off your ability to use ultimate sanctions to negotiate future pay rises and protect future working conditions for the sake of a few hundred quid in back dated, and approx £8 a week now (approx £12 less tax & NI ).

[gashead-postie]

surely a yes vote will be a signal to dave ward and hq that we are more interested in money than sorting the delivery workloads out

to say hq are unaware of the anger over pushing delivery to one side would be a lie

its been several weeks since this agreement was reached and dave ward still refuses to talk about overloaded deliverys


to sum it up basically it would appear they don't give a toss about the street posties

[fishtank]

So we vote No get shafted somewhere down the line, we vote yes get shafted somewhere down the line.

There really isn't much point in this thread because there will be no consequences of a no vote because there won't be a no vote. What people should be spending their precious time thinking about are what the real consequences of a yes vote will be because that's the reality facing members.

Not the money, that would have happened anyway or the bollocks parroted by plastic union members or reps who really have no idea what working for a private company means but where a yes vote actually puts the union, where a yes vote puts the membership and what the future holds for us as both workers and union members. If you can't do that then you really shouldn't be voting at all because you haven't thought things through properly.

If the issues in delivery are not resolved where will the union be in 3 years?
What is the union's fall back position if Royal Mail take a hard line over deliveries, go after more savings, more flexibility, more lapsing, more part-time working (what does predominantly mean anyway?).

If there is a yes vote the union cannot then come back to the membership in 12 months time and say Royal Mail are screwing us over do you fancy a bit of IA? Not only will they be laughed out of town the members won't risk the "legal protections" over delivery issues the union have already failed to resolve.

So what we have to understand is that the consequences of a yes vote for delivery members is that the union goes into these delivery reviews with absolutely no strength, no weapon, no fallback, no plan B and we will just have to accept whatever crumbs are thrown in our direction and attempt to dress them up as victories or joint statements as they are now called.

What will that do for the membership?, well I think by the time 5 years pass which isn't a long time in a 40 year career you will be lucky to get an IA ballot going north of Watford and just at the very time when we will need as much solidarity as we can find we'll be royally screwed.

[daveyeff]

well i believe they have sold us down the river and i told the branch secretary to his face at the briefing, he shook his head and said deliveries would be resolved, it was their duty to see to it. i said they DONT know what goes on in deliveries theyve been out of touch with the reality of them for years. stuck in their branch office playing solitaire or patience while we get on with the b&h every day. its the same for the heirachy as well. they should not be allowed in the top union positions for more than 2 yrs at a time. deliveries are f****d

[halfull]

well i believe they have sold us down the river and i told the branch secretary to his face at the briefing, he shook his head and said deliveries would be resolved, it was their duty to see to it. i said they DONT know what goes on in deliveries theyve been out of touch with the reality of them for years. stuck in their branch office playing solitaire or patience while we get on with the b&h every day. its the same for the heirachy as well. they should not be allowed in the top union positions for more than 2 yrs at a time. deliveries are f****d

I Must Say This Post IS So Bloody Right Its Crazy!!

[Chelseablue]

Once again it's all about money with certain people , how's the b and h in you're office? Workload? ,well see how that escalates in the next few years! Every time there's a big vote ahead there's a little carrot dangling and some ppl jump in .