What happens if we were to vote no?

[fishtank]

Fish has raised a point which is worthy of discussion does the union cut it's losses and agree that the delivery span will drive the number of full time jobs in the future. I think most members would choose to remain full time even if it meant a longer span rather then opt to say a 3.5 span but be forced to reduce their contracted hours from full time to part time but let's have a debate on it.

If we're going to have a debate on it let's at least dispense with the hyperbole and discuss it sensibly. We're not talking about forcing members to reduce their contracts, we're talking about building a future resourcing mix that increases the part-time ratio over a period of time and addresses the dangers of ever increasing delivery spans to align aspirations with the long term physical sustainability of the job.

The fatigue study as expected was a whitewash of skewed data and irrelevant conclusions, It was simply an agenda-led cherry picking exercise and an embarrassment to the union. No professional Industrial Engineer would have touched such an amateurish effort with a barge pole which leads me to believe that the union was as uninterested in getting to the truth about fatigue as the business was. The obvious union agenda was holding on to this notion of a predominantly full time resource mix at all costs no matter the possible long term physical dangers to staff.

Part of this study was supposed to look at business wide sick absence rates and reasons, IHR rates and reasons and reduced opportunities for redeployment but none of that data has surfaced, It really was a sham exercise and not even worthy of discussion.

If you really want to debate the impact of longer delivery spans I would suggest doing one for at least a month first then come back and we'll kick it off from there.

[chrisj]

Hyperbole indeed!

Who is still talking about a maximum of 3.5 hours delivery span when most delivery post revision have gone past that number...

Fish, you will be lucky to get a sensible discussion... It is like to trying to discuss with RM, but then you know they have an obvious agenda but what is the agenda of this Union Rep in dismissing posties view's and hyperbolising and negatively misrepresenting people's views???

Personally, I will be concerned about any continuous delivery span that regularly goes beyond 5 hours at the present rate (or increased expectation) of delivery speed. And this is a whole statement - taking parts of it will be some sort of misrepresentation.

[oldrope]

If it a no vote we get no pay rise, no protected T & Cs and no back pay. End off

[bogstandard]

If it a no vote we get no pay rise, no protected T & Cs and no back pay. End off

this is factually accurate.
As much as it disappoints me to say, as i work in deliveries, those not in deliveries will get what you are given.
In this vote deliveries is KING.
i have said it before, i've yet to meet anyone who voted for TWF or 2010 or pay and major change,yet here we are.
where do we go from here if a no vote? well possibly separation. separate PF from deliveries, MC's from deliveries, logistics from deliveries you get the picture.
Then do we become the masters of our own downfall by insisting we are different when it comes to national agreements but the same when they look at franchising?
i attended the briefing in London on the 10th and to quote ltb 839/13 "The Postal Executive is determined to ensure that we have an informed debate with our representatives" FYI never took place. This was a sales pitch to an overcrowded room who were keen to have a debate but were limited to asking one question about the agreement for clarification purposes only. As one colleague tried to ask his questions he was ridiculed by the chair for not giving his name at the start. If the union really wanted informed debate it could quite easily have broken out but as i said questions were only for clarification purposes.

[dvbuk55]

What would happen if we voted NO............the stench of excrement from 150 would be horrendous........why........because they couldn't envisage a NO vote and don't have a Plan B................come to think of it they didn't have a Plan A either.

[bogstandard]

What would happen if we voted NO............the stench of excrement from 150 would be horrendous........why........because they couldn't envisage a NO vote and don't have a Plan B................come to think of it they didn't have a Plan A either.

i think there is a strand or group working on plan A as we speak, or write if you will

[Darren Bent]

It is a shame we can't have multiple choice options. So we can vote to accept the pay rise but not the changes that come with pay rise. To the majority of us we would like to see 20 pounds weekly pay rise (estimate) in next few months.

[music4essex]

In the South East Geography covering over 26 000 postmen and women there were ony 34 bulling and harassment cases from April last years , 8 of them were from Mail centres , 12 were aimed at management which led to 10 conduct code cases against those managers and the remainder were employee against employee.

Well my manager must have been one of the two that got away with it How he got away with putting someone on NCI procedure for 3 months( which had never been heard of 3yrs ago. then using Atos as a weapon to gain IHR, Or move to a mailcentre with the closest being 10 miles away but went for the furthest of 20 not a good idea when I am the single parent.

The only good that has come out of it is the fact that he volunteered himself to another office, for the last 3 months , but he still runs the office from a distance,
The manager who took the case on was involved with agreeing the duty for me , then for it to be changed by the said manager who was suppose to be off sick , how can that be a fair case to be held only interested in putting me back to stage 1 not adressing any of the issues , which in fact disregarded them ,even though I flagged this up to headquarter what has been done Sweet FA You wonder why we are angry about what goes on in delivery in regards to B/H, management do all they can to cover it up, wether management dishing it out, or postie against postie management do not know how to deal with it

Essex mum


I will stand up and say these things when we have our meeting , not heard anything from the little group that came to our office in regards to how management treat us , so for me it will be a big fat NO