Change to come

[Martin Walsh]

Bernard it is really immature to slag people off you don't know the first thing about. Too many on here believe that an alternative view is somehow wrong and are the enemy and need to be attacked. That is a form of bullying which most on here claimed to either be the victim off or claim the union is not doing enough about. It's worth thinking about that when putting a post up when you attack the messenger rather that have a debate on the issue.

I have been a member of this site for a number of years , most senior reps avoid this site like a barge pole because instead of a debate on the issues they get attacked and most reps try and do a good job whatever anyone else thinks. Now TBT and Postman do a good job on this site but the choice is for people on here do you want a boring site where all of you share the same view and become a ilrevance or do you want a site which debates reasonably issues and with passion and that you get too know some things which are actually happening in advance. It's your choice.

For the record I have done deliveries for a number of years and I meet delivery members in loads of different offices.

If you want to be taken seriously in any debate then you have to recognise letters are declining. But also recognise that most people are doing more streets and delivering to more addresses and the letters each walk are delivering is probably more but the overall letter traffic in the office is lower.

Now I will let you decide what site you want !

[BernardBresslaw]

Who was talking about you?

I'm presuming you are merely passing on information rather than dictating policy. Don't be do paranoid.

Letter volume is down? How about everything else that we deliver? Strange that is never mentioned...

[dvbuk55]

Do we want reasoned debate? Of course! Do we want people skewing the facts to serve their ends, I wouldn't think so; do we want reps toeing the party line to serve their own ends, no: do we want a history lesson, well, we're living the history of BT 2010, purported to be the deal of the century which turned out to be the sell out of the century, soon to be followed by an even bigger capitulation in the Agenda for Growth...........I can guarantee it won't be the growth in union membership.

[aiden01]

Bernard it is really immature to slag people off you don't know the first thing about. Too many on here believe that an alternative view is somehow wrong and are the enemy and need to be attacked. That is a form of bullying which most on here claimed to either be the victim off or claim the union is not doing enough about. It's worth thinking about that when putting a post up when you attack the messenger rather that have a debate on the issue.

I have been a member of this site for a number of years , most senior reps avoid this site like a barge pole because instead of a debate on the issues they get attacked and most reps try and do a good job whatever anyone else thinks. Now TBT and Postman do a good job on this site but the choice is for people on here do you want a boring site where all of you share the same view and become a ilrevance or do you want a site which debates reasonably issues and with passion and that you get too know some things which are actually happening in advance. It's your choice.

For the record I have done deliveries for a number of years and I meet delivery members in loads of different offices.

If you want to be taken seriously in any debate then you have to recognise letters are declining. But also recognise that most people are doing more streets and delivering to more addresses and the letters each walk are delivering is probably more but the overall letter traffic in the office is lower.

Now I will let you decide what site you want !

well said dingo and thanks for keeping us all up to date in the last lot of months vote YES

[dvbuk55]

Bernard it is really immature to slag people off you don't know the first thing about. Too many on here believe that an alternative view is somehow wrong and are the enemy and need to be attacked. That is a form of bullying which most on here claimed to either be the victim off or claim the union is not doing enough about. It's worth thinking about that when putting a post up when you attack the messenger rather that have a debate on the issue.

I have been a member of this site for a number of years , most senior reps avoid this site like a barge pole because instead of a debate on the issues they get attacked and most reps try and do a good job whatever anyone else thinks. Now TBT and Postman do a good job on this site but the choice is for people on here do you want a boring site where all of you share the same view and become a ilrevance or do you want a site which debates reasonably issues and with passion and that you get too know some things which are actually happening in advance. It's your choice.

For the record I have done deliveries for a number of years and I meet delivery members in loads of different offices.

If you want to be taken seriously in any debate then you have to recognise letters are declining. But also recognise that most people are doing more streets and delivering to more addresses and the letters each walk are delivering is probably more but the overall letter traffic in the office is lower.

Now I will let you decide what site you want !

well said dingo and thanks for keeping us all up to date in the last lot of months vote YES

I'll just bet you voted for the Deal of the Century too, then why wouldn't you, it hasn't affected you and neither will this one..........Unity is strength

[aiden01]

Bernard it is really immature to slag people off you don't know the first thing about. Too many on here believe that an alternative view is somehow wrong and are the enemy and need to be attacked. That is a form of bullying which most on here claimed to either be the victim off or claim the union is not doing enough about. It's worth thinking about that when putting a post up when you attack the messenger rather that have a debate on the issue.

I have been a member of this site for a number of years , most senior reps avoid this site like a barge pole because instead of a debate on the issues they get attacked and most reps try and do a good job whatever anyone else thinks. Now TBT and Postman do a good job on this site but the choice is for people on here do you want a boring site where all of you share the same view and become a ilrevance or do you want a site which debates reasonably issues and with passion and that you get too know some things which are actually happening in advance. It's your choice.

For the record I have done deliveries for a number of years and I meet delivery members in loads of different offices.

If you want to be taken seriously in any debate then you have to recognise letters are declining. But also recognise that most people are doing more streets and delivering to more addresses and the letters each walk are delivering is probably more but the overall letter traffic in the office is lower.

Now I will let you decide what site you want !

yes.
well said dingo and thanks for keeping us all up to date in the last lot of months vote YES

I'll just bet you voted for the Deal of the Century too, then why wouldn't you, it hasn't affected you and neither will this one..........Unity is strength

yes

[Jamesethefirst]

Letter volume is down? How about everything else that we deliver? Strange that is never mentioned...

If letter traffic is down as much as is claimed,then why do the likes of TNT want to start their own deliveries? Why worry about it? If it is down 10% a year,or whatever arbitrary figure can be used ,then why bother with delivering it yourself! just leave it to die naturally.

[BernardBresslaw]

Exactly. Why expand their letter delivery at all if there is no market for it? We don't deliver as many 'personal' letters any more, but every other type of bulk mailing still seems to be sent, along with advertisements, catalogues etc. RM/CWU seems to believe that the magical pixies are delivering these items, but no it's still the postman.

[chrisj]

Letter volumes debate is not the issue - not for now... I thought the ballot was about workload and unreasonable demands... and erratic and unfair absorption making people work over their time or get into argument and confrontations with managers.

I am sorry this is a red herring - and he is trying to divert attention from the real issue. So what if letter volumes are 1991 or 1999, does not make much difference when there is more automation, less staff and more productivity?

It is easy to neglect that aspect of increased productivity in the general argument and conclusion by RM - because it serves their purpose but why would the Union want to go down that road just to get a Yes in an agreement?

We are not having a reasonable debate with hyperbole, skewed arguments and sycophants as well as die-hard opposition.

And as for Aiden, the nitty-gritty of the Agreement will not be felt in the MCs - that is a fact! And that is why some people might want to vote NO - and that should be simple enough for you to understand by now given the opinions expressed here in multiple threads and post.

If the folks at MC are feeling the impact of the Agreement then we should be seeing them having debates on their own forum or in the Union section - that is so obvious!

[OnAFlyer]

As I said in my office in 1991 we had 150 night duties , we had 150 first de
Overlies and 100 second deliveries and 60 van duties , oh and a middle class of duties to cover failures and a late set of duties Om over items to tip and prepare the work

That same office now has 12 nights , 80 deliveries only 30 van duties , no late class and no middle. A lot has changed . We have more automation , we have just one delivery and we are a lot more productive. So people are working harder than in 1991.

Your office still has night staff? Are they CSS operators? Surely no delivery offices still have an actual night shift. Our office has a lot more deliveries than yours but a third of the driving duties (which also happen to be pretty much the easiest duties in the office).

I'd be genuinely interested to see how your office works compared to others.

When we had our revision we never really got a choice as to what shift pattern to vote for, as the walks were already planned and agreed for a 5 day week and the rep was telling everyone to vote for the 5 day week as it would mean more full time jobs. It didn't, half our FT duties are now filled by PT staff and people with 10+ years service are getting PT hours some weeks.

[music4essex]

The Joint Statement on Dignity , fairness and respect was agreed in March 2012. The joint statement has been in place for close on 10 months and has resolved some of the issues. However not in all places and it did say that there would be a roll out in every office of a joint work time listening session delivered by the DOM and Union with a check list to see it's been done. So it is not part of any vote.

It should have been though as it is rife , either from management who I have had this done to me , or because management do not know how to deal with the Harrassment code or is now called dignity and respect,

in my office there are a few posties who have been bullying in the office against individuals, even though management was approached on this , we was told that we had to put a grievence in , my reply was no you don't, you are suppose to sort it out under the dignity and respect agreement , alas nothing has been done , and in fact management have gone out of there way to follow this person on jumped up remarks made by the bully.

I am still waiting on how my case is doing with headquarters and Royal mail , how long has it been 1yr , my manager trying all he could to get me out atos IHR
how can an office have walks that can be up to 3hrs finishing time difference and the duties that go over are the one's that individuals are bullied on by management , so no amount of management workshops are going to deal with his problem all the same managers are in place
Essex mum

[aiden01]

where have I said people cannot vote no all I said was vote yes we all have our own opinions and I will post in whatever thread I want to not be dictated by you chrisj

[chrisj]

where have I said people cannot vote no all I said was vote yes we all have our own opinions and I will post in whatever thread I want to not be dictated by you chrisj

Apologies! I must have confused you for 'oldrope'. Btw, I am not telling you how to vote - I am not that bothered; and I am not campaigning for a No.

But you are not debating but parroting the same things especially the same things as dingo... The perceived lack of understanding from MC staff is staggering!

And that is nothing to do with easier life in MCs but many sections of the Agreements will not impact on the MC staff. They can all vote Yes - that is their prerogative.

[Martin Walsh]

Chris this is a debating board , you are tending to jump down peoples thoarts. We all long in the tooth to be convinced by anyone. There are only about 200 regular posters on this site and we all are entitled to an opinion and we all have just one vote.

In terms of Mail centres , some would say they have seen some of the biggest changes in the last 10 years. We gone from 70 Mail centres down to close to 40. Thousands of jobs have gone , those who wanted to remain in a job had to travel great distances to work some well over an 2 hours. They have lost 50% of their outward work to DSA. Delivery staff still get this work. They have moved from Monday to Friday duties to now DSA duties being done on Saturdays.

So I do think criticising Mail centre staff for thinking that they will be better off by the new agreement is wrong simply bacause of your view on deliveries.

[steven100]

Exactly. Why expand their letter delivery at all if there is no market for it? We don't deliver as many 'personal' letters any more, but every other type of bulk mailing still seems to be sent, along with advertisements, catalogues etc. RM/CWU seems to believe that the magical pixies are delivering these items, but no it's still the postman.

magical pixies - Pixies (also pixy, pixi, pizkie, piskies and pigsies as they are sometimes known in Cornwall) are mythical creatures of folklore, considered to be particularly concentrated in the high moorland areas around Devon[1] and Cornwall,[2] suggesting some Celtic origin for the belief and name. Akin to the Irish and Scottish Aos Sí, pixies are believed to inhabit ancient underground ancestor sites such as stone circles, barrows, dolmens, ringfort or menhirs.[3]

In traditional regional lore, pixies are generally benign, mischievous, short of stature and attractively childlike; they are fond of dancing and gather outdoors in huge numbers to dance or sometimes wrestle, through the night, demonstrating parallels with the Cornish plen-an-gwary and Breton Fest Noz (Cornish: troyl) folk celebrations originating in the medieval period. In modern times they are usually depicted with pointed ears, and often wearing a green outfit and pointed hat. Sometimes their eyes are described as being pointed upwards at the temple ends. These, however, are Victorian era conventions and not part of the older mythology.
(It must be true I took from Wikipedia) , This could easily be us with a few modifications to our uniform and appearance