briefings so far

[OnAFlyer]

To the contrary I don't and if you have evidence that a divisional rep has done this well you should report it too union headquarters.

I cannot understand why anyone would do this as even if they were weak they could hide behind Bobs agreement with Jensen.

However in the same way as I accept that it's not all the fault of the local rep , you have to also accept that bob at every briefing including two briefings of local reps has said there is no agreement on 100 bsi yet it would seem lots of offices have agreed that figure.

And why have they agreed that figure? Because many local reps haven't got a clue, they never see the area or divisional rep or whoever else is supposed to be out there. And because the reps haven't got a clue and just go along with management, how are the members who vote for them supposed to know if they're wrong or not on the stuff they're agreeing?

Why are the CWU letting offices agree 100bsi when they aren't supposed to?

I support a lot of what you say Dingo but a lot of what you've been coming out with lately smacks of 'my offices are ok, London is strong and we'll walk out but its tough if you lot are getting shafted cos it's every office for themselves from now on'

As it happens I work in a good office with decent management, tbh I'm bloody glad I do because you lot wouldn't be any help if we were getting done over. I'm just glad I don't bother paying you anymore.

[toonslayer7]

Having been a rep for just over a year, all i can say is that i have had NO formal training with regards to BSI, resourcing and the like. I took the role on for moral reasons and yes, did not realise the amount of daily s**t a rep has to put up with from all sides. I am lucky, i have a fantastic Area Rep who is always available and makes time for the office when it is needed. I managed to set the office BSI at 78, i have been to disagreement several times and have taken the bull by the horns. Many reps cant be arsed or are simply out of their depth and with this in mind i DO blame the " top table" and their complete lack of understanding of what goes on at grass root levels. Bob Gibson can blame who he wants, having heard him talk several times, I have found him rude, ignorant and quick to point the finger at the local reps who in many occasions have not got the knowledge or support for whatever reason to ensure that they can look after their members properly. You may be the man who writes these agreements Mr.Gibson, but you are also the man that should ensure that your reps have the knowledge to apply them as well. That is why these things go wrong and you blaming your people smacks of incompetence and disillusionment on your behalf. As your outdoor report states - DON'T BURY YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND!

[chrisj]

It is good to hear from a local rep.

However, you pointed out that yo have had to spend many of your own time finding things out and you have good support from your Area Rep.

Even with the best of intentions, some local reps might just not be able to do certain things without assistance from all angles including local members and even local DOMS...

Some of the reps might have enough to deal with as relates to combining their own job (not a lot of margin - outdoor work still has to be done and in shared vans - it has got harder to delegate or take reps out), the rep has to deal with issues whilst still trying to do his job, he has to learn things and liaise with managers, members and outside, he might probably have family commitments...

* Some members keep getting themselves in trouble and do not make the job easy for local reps and some are to quick to blame and so on. And the conduct codes for virtually anything these days just keep mounting sickness procedure, lapsing, harassment btw members and-or managers and so on ...

All of that on one person in a smallish office; sometimes with a divided/selfish office, a truculent manager, blame culture and a not very understanding CWU Union. All these he/she does voluntarily.

[hans solo]

I was at the London one which had Anglia reps , South East Reps , South Central Reps and London Reps.

I think most who left there was happy with the all the main parts of the agreement . The solicitor Ivan Walker was very good and explained and answered the questions.

A few questions on delivery around absorption and resourcing to demand or workload. Bob answered them and explained the forward agenda.

I spoke to those who had been to all the Briefings thus far and they have been mostly the same after the main points of the agreements has been explained then most accept its a good deal on all those issues.

However when the Delivery part of the agreement is explained there is a load of questions on workload resourcing etc. bob explains that the business wants annualised hours and PDA recordings to be used to inform resourcing .

Now the next 2 briefings are Scotland and Northern Ireland.

very sorry but f**k the lawyer its not him that walks out in pissing rain for 4and a half hrs its what we think and do not a lawyer paid for his input to tell us anything or because our exec aren,t up to it to confound us with propoganda and lies

[toonslayer7]

It is good to hear from a local rep.

However, you pointed out that yo have had to spend many of your own time finding things out and you have good support from your Area Rep.

Even with the best of intentions, some local reps might just not be able to do certain things without assistance from all angles including local members and even local DOMS...

Some of the reps might have enough to deal with as relates to combining their own job (not a lot of margin - outdoor work still has to be done and in shared vans - it has got harder to delegate or take reps out), the rep has to deal with issues whilst still trying to do his job, he has to learn things and liaise with managers, members and outside, he might probably have family commitments...

* Some members keep getting themselves in trouble and do not make the job easy for local reps and some are to quick to blame and so on. And the conduct codes for virtually anything these days just keep mounting sickness procedure, lapsing, harassment btw members and-or managers and so on ...

All of that on one person in a smallish office; sometimes with a divided/selfish office, a truculent manager, blame culture and a not very understanding CWU Union. All these he/she does voluntarily.

Fair play for your comments mate, almost all of the above apply to me.

[tomangoe]

toonslayer7 and chrisj you are both spot on. I went to the Manchester briefing and was appalled that Bob Gibson couldn't be bothered to turn up and face the Reps who will have to deal with the fall-out from anything he comes up with. So, he'd rather spend his time with management at a "workshop" covering the strands of the "Delivery Review" the results of which we won't get a say in-and when the members come to us Reps to sort out the mess where will you be Mr.Gibson, waving another agreement under managements noses which they will just ignore while we trawl through the new extended IR framework until everything is forgotten.

[dvbuk55]

The answer is quite simple, vote no and pull out of the union and save a couple of hundred quid a year. I notice they haven't announced the subs rise yet but it's coming. Starve them of cash and maybe they'll start to listen to the people who pay their salaries.

As a matter of interest the lawyer didn't manage to get his butt out of London either they really are taking the members for chumps.

[Godric]

I was at the Glasgow meet, Ward swerved some of my points because he couldn't answer them fairly or his fellow guests that sidestepped my points about their being no agreement till everything was agreed, he didn't like it when I told him that he lauded BT2010 as well as wonder deal like this one and he was raging because I told him BT2010 was a f**king shambles, or the point where I told him and the executives that they didn't have to live with the deal it was us ...... but the bit where I really pissed Ward off was when I heckled him 3 minutes into his speech after he said it was not a no strike deal at which point I roared "yes it is you just reworded it" after that he kept repeating throughout the session that it wasn't a no strike deal he was ph*cking raging and his description of it made it more obvious it was a no strike deal, and their lawyer he got absolute pelters and jeers after he said the deal was legally binded by the best law in the world "English Law" everybody jeered him he was taken aback apart from that it was pretty tame affair to many yes men

when I go to a meeting I don't go to listen to bullshit and not respond to it

[dvbuk55]

I was at the Glasgow meet, Ward swerved some of my points because he couldn't answer them fairly or his fellow guests that sidestepped my points about their being no agreement till everything was agreed, he didn't like it when I told him that he lauded BT2010 as well as wonder deal like this one and he was raging because I told him BT2010 was a f**king shambles, or the point where I told him and the executives that they didn't have to live with the deal it was us ...... but the bit where I really pissed Ward off was when I heckled him 3 minutes into his speech after he said it was not a no strike deal at which point I roared "yes it is you just reworded it" after that he kept repeating throughout the session that it wasn't a no strike deal he was ph*cking raging and his description of it made it more obvious it was a no strike deal, and their lawyer he got absolute pelters and jeers after he said the deal was legally binded by the best law in the world "English Law" everybody jeered him he was taken aback apart from that it was pretty tame affair to many yes men

when I go to a meeting I don't go to listen to bullshit and not respond to it

[Glenno]

Godric.... respect to you, sometimes you gotta say it how it is

[Godric]

Godric.... respect to you, sometimes you gotta say it how it is

biggest regret was not asking: what's Royal Mail's business plan is and if he didn't know then why are we voting on a deal where we don't know their business plan

and it was clear that this deal is all about the CWU bigwigs looking after their own arses maintaining their we cosy tea/coffee meeting with their opposite numbers in Royal Mail

[hans solo]

i told you rm business plan eventuall pt deliv workforce , total dismantling of mail centres let tnt uk mail run them on cheaper wages tender out transport to cheapest buyer heard stobart would be interested watch what happens when we open the door

[dvbuk55]

i told you rm business plan eventuall pt deliv workforce , total dismantling of mail centres let tnt uk mail run them on cheaper wages tender out transport to cheapest buyer heard stobart would be interested watch what happens when we open the door

Wait a mo hans what about the legal protections are we not safe for the next umpty ump years................well until RM feel its not financially viable

[Godric]

i told you rm business plan eventuall pt deliv workforce , total dismantling of mail centres let tnt uk mail run them on cheaper wages tender out transport to cheapest buyer heard stobart would be interested watch what happens when we open the door

their business plan is obvious (I just wanted to ask if Ward knew sadly I forgot to ask) wage = Salary (no overtime) obligated to complete delivery, banking of hours, flexability with deep productivity savings/cuts

[halfull]

I was at the Glasgow meet, Ward swerved some of my points because he couldn't answer them fairly or his fellow guests that sidestepped my points about their being no agreement till everything was agreed, he didn't like it when I told him that he lauded BT2010 as well as wonder deal like this one and he was raging because I told him BT2010 was a f**king shambles, or the point where I told him and the executives that they didn't have to live with the deal it was us ...... but the bit where I really pissed Ward off was when I heckled him 3 minutes into his speech after he said it was not a no strike deal at which point I roared "yes it is you just reworded it" after that he kept repeating throughout the session that it wasn't a no strike deal he was ph*cking raging and his description of it made it more obvious it was a no strike deal, and their lawyer he got absolute pelters and jeers after he said the deal was legally binded by the best law in the world "English Law" everybody jeered him he was taken aback apart from that it was pretty tame affair to many yes men

when I go to a meeting I don't go to listen to bullshit and not respond to it

absolutely brilliant! VOTE NO!