Dom has threatened to stop my pay whilst on sick

[Groundpounder]

Ok don't know what's up with you but this sounds crazy.
Firstly ATOS working as HR can override a GP fit note ,but often they don't ,If for some reason they think you should be back at work they will sometimes go for a second opinion by sending you to a medical centre. They will also try to get you back to work whether your ready or not. This usually consists of 1/ phased return 2/adjusted duties and its all put together in a work plan agreed by you the union and them. Sick pay is 6 months full pay 6 months half pay and can only be stopped under a few rare circumstances like being caught playing football while your supposed to have a broken leg. So ask the rep to contact the unions legal secretary with your specific circumstances and see where you stand. What they can't do is just drag you back to work on a whim because the coffee machines broke.

[NWpostie]

You got his letter as physical evidence and the Scottish Courage Ltd v Guthrie legal case precedent, you can have his guts for garters in an ET and maoosive wonga, he doesn't have a leg to stand on, don't let him play on your fears, bullies loves weakness.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Firstly ATOS working as HR can override a GP fit note

No they can't.
They have next to zero medical expertise.
Your GP's opinion is the be all and end all of the discussion.
And their opinion is the only one a court will listen to.

Not someone who has a week or twos training and a script to follow.

[Fat Head]

Thanks everybody for all your posts. I feel more confident in not turning up because of this. I will let you know what happens.

[Groundpounder]

Firstly ATOS working as HR can override a GP fit note

No they can't.
They have next to zero medical expertise.
Your GP's opinion is the be all and end all of the discussion.
And their opinion is the only one a court will listen to.

Not someone who has a week or twos training and a script to follow.

Atos can acting as HR override a GP fit note ,How do I know this ? well 1/My GP told me 2/Atos Told me 3/ Its on the DWP web site it's a typical government document that goes on forever. Or ask your GP .Also personally I see ATOS as no more than government puppets with an agenda 60k per doctor.

[NWpostie]

Firstly ATOS working as HR can override a GP fit note

No they can't.
They have next to zero medical expertise.
Your GP's opinion is the be all and end all of the discussion.
And their opinion is the only one a court will listen to.

Not someone who has a week or twos training and a script to follow.

Atos can acting as HR override a GP fit note ,How do I know this ? well 1/My GP told me 2/Atos Told me 3/ Its on the DWP web site it's a typical government document that goes on forever. Or ask your GP .Also personally I see ATOS as no more than government puppets with an agenda 60k per doctor.

I would imagine in a tribunal the Presiding Officer will give more weight to a GP's opinion than that of a zero medically trained ATOS staff who is paid or retained by Royal mail who can only recommend a course of action for return to work which must not conflict with the medical advice of a GP. the Government ATOS you're thinking of, is more for getting people off incapacity benefits.

[barrowc]

From page 37 of the 2013 National Attendance Agreement - http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... nce_Pr.pdf:

What happens when Occupational Health Service and the GP differ on fitness to attend work?

On occasion, the GP opinion regarding fitness to work may differ from that of the Occupational Health Service. In the vast majority of instances this can be resolved by the employee talking further with their GP, who may not be aware of the opportunity to modify the employee’s role. If this does not resolve the situation the Occupational Health practitioner should contact the GP to ensure that such opportunities can be explored. If this does not resolve the issue for further advice, please contact the HR Advice Centre.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.personneltoday.com/hr/govern ... fit-notes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government tells employers they can overrule GP fit notes

By Personnel Today on 1 May 2013 in Absence, Fit notes, Health and safety, HR practice, Occupational health, Wellbeing

The Government has indicated that employers may, in principle, be able to overrule a GP’s advice in a fit note as to whether or not a person is potentially fit to return to work.

The little-noticed change was incorporated into new guidance on the fit note published by the Government in March and could allow an employer to give precedence to the views of an occupational health practitioner over those of a GP.

In the guidance for employers and line managers, under the headline “Is the fit note binding on me?”, the Government has made it clear that the answer is “no”.

The guidance states: “The assessment about whether your employee is not fit for work or may be fit for work (and any other advice in the fit note) is classed as advice, and it is for employers to determine whether or not to accept it.

“Occasionally, you may believe that your employee is not fit for work when they have been assessed as fit for work by their doctor, or you may think that your employee could do some work when they have been assessed as ‘not fit for work’ by their doctor.”

The guidance continues: “In situations like this you as the employer are within your rights to gather other evidence about your employee’s fitness for work from other doctors or healthcare professionals. You can choose to give this other evidence precedence over the advice in the fit note.

“Your employee may disagree with you, and you may need to demonstrate to an employment tribunal why the alternative source of evidence was more acceptable to you than the fit note.”

This change is highly significant, according to Dr Sayeed Khan, chief medical adviser to manufacturers’ organisation EEF.

“The fact an employer can choose to go out and gather other evidence, and that the employer’s evidence can take precedence over other evidence, is really important,” he said. “For example, an occupational health nurse that knows the site very well and has done an assessment for work may be able to say: ‘There is work on this site that is suitable for that person’.

“Then, if the employee refuses to come back to work, the employer could listen to the nurse instead of the employee’s GP. From there, there might be consequences. The employer, of course, may have to be able to justify why they prefer to take that advice in a tribunal, but it is quite ground-breaking that they could override the view of a GP.”

The move has come as the Government unveiled a targeted tax relief in the Budget in March, up to a cap of £500, on health-related interventions, something many in OH have been pushing for for a number of years.

Meanwhile, the attitude of GPs towards patients’ health and work has been highlighted in a recent Department for Work and Pensions’ research note.

It found that of the 1,665 GPs that responded, the majority believe that work is beneficial to health and that it is important for them to be “actively involved” in helping patients return to work.

Nevertheless, many GPs admitted to feeling pressured to issue sick notes for reasons that were not strictly medical, and believed local “return to work” support and advisory services could be improved.

GPs were also, by and large, increasingly positive about the effect the revised fit note was having on their consultations and patient outcomes.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-managers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Getting the most out of the fit note Guidance for employers and line managers

[Fat Head]

Thankyou trueblue. The only other evidence that I'm aware of that my dom has sourced was that from Atos. And throughout the last phone conversation with them , they never even assessed me.

Anyone got any idea what may happen? Its sorta not looking good.

[spilie]

As far as ATOS goes it has been stated at a tribunal before by the presiding judge that ATOS reports are nothing more than recommendations, so I would treat it as such and politely refuse that recommendation

[Fat Head]

As far as ATOS goes it has been stated at a tribunal before by the presiding judge that ATOS reports are nothing more than recommendations, so I would treat it as such and politely refuse that recommendation

I have and asked to be referred back again for assessment. Also made appointment to see my doctor again. I don't know what else i can do.

[rehabron]

Your GP is in a better position than ATOS to assess your fitness for work as your GP sees you every time with a face to face appointment instead of a 20 minute phone call given from an ATOS consultant. Your GP has issued you with a note which has the box ticked that you are unfit for work and has a further two weeks to run. Your GP has not recommended adjustment to duty or working hours or lighter duties and will have a justifiable reason for this exclusion.
ATOS were apponted RM Occupational Health Provider in order to get employees returned to work and back to their contractual hours as quick as possible.
You state that ATOS have said you are fit to return to work and not knowing your exact illness or the duty you hold they would have made this decision on the series of questions that you would have been required to answer in the 20 minute phone call assessment.
In relation to your DOM stopping your wages whilst covered by a medical certificate this would be an illegal deduction of wages and the Employment Rights Act 1996 Chapter 18 covers this quite adequately.

[gluteus maximus]

This will be under section 13 Employment Rights Act. And it is unlawful, not illegal deduction of wages

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Fat Head]

You state that ATOS have said you are fit to return to work and not knowing your exact illness or the duty you hold they would have made this decision on the series of questions that you would have been required to answer in the 20 minute phone call assessment.

ATOS originally assessed me 3 months ago, yes. But when they phoned this time they never assessed me. They just told me what my Dom expects from me. I didn't agree. Next thing I knew I had a letter from Dom saying he'd since spoke with ATOS after I had and they together reached n agreement. So now it was all ATOS agreed he said I had to return to work last Saturday or else my wages will be stopped. I didn't go, so expecting a letter tomorrow.

[Fat Head]

This will be under section 13 Employment Rights Act. And it is unlawful, not illegal deduction of wages

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/13" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope this is right. I cannot afford no wages. I've been off on basic pay for the last 3 months, that's been bad enough.