Summer Lapsing starts in January.

[dave0876]

Lapsing what is that ive never done it and never will i manage my working day breaks taken etc finish on my time every day and if i can't manage what i have on the odd occasion it stays in.people need to realise this when you get paid by the hour you are expected to work those hours .this is the only job i have ever done where people start early thick as f**k comes to mind.

[chrisj]

Our union rep put in a disagreement to lapsing
I bet the offices doing lapsing already have no union reps as they would have put in a disagreement . If not WHY not

You can't put a disagreement in against absorption/lapsing in principle since it's part of the pay&mod agreement.
You can only enter a disagreement if the parameters laid down in pay&mod are not being followed.
If they are and people have genuine time to lapse or idiots are making time to lapse there isn't a lot a rep can do and a disagreement will likely go nowhere.

Dare say dingo doesn't do it so no worrys eh !!

Neither will you if you work correctly to time .

"Working correctly to time" is no guarantee you won't be lapsing, It only guarantees you won't be lapsing when you don't have the time to lapse.

So much for disagreement with this and that. The problem is that a manager can introduce lapsing or absorption based on the days figures or extreme absenteeism. A disagreement will not do much for that particular day as some of your members will probably say they have time to do the lapsing or some will just do it anyway and some will be too meek to go against the manager.

However, if a manager introduced a blanket lapsing system by taking out a walk just because of absenteeism or one or two busy days then a disagreement will be justified. I suppose a disagreement might be also OK to stop manager abusing the system or agreement in future even though they might get away with the odd one or two. However, the Rep needs the support of the office and he has to be sure that posties do not generally have time to absorb. Furthermore there is also the 30 minutes flexibility in exceptional circumstances to consider.

[chrisj]

Like someone said it is no longer summer lapsing anymore even though some Local Reps or district (or Area) reps might say the contrary. It is about resourcing to workload and if there is genuinely not enough work to do to fill the contracted time then it is going to be hard to argue against lapsing.

Our manager gave us a choice of either lapsing or posties have to come back to the office and sign out or fill their time with indoor work if they finish early. This was even an individual choice but can you guess what folks went for. And so the lapsing continued for many many weeks just because we had 3 people on long-term absence.

It would have been nice to call the manager's bluff but I guess it is easier for some to come in even earlier to accommodate the lapsed on busier days.

[Kings Norton]

If Royal Mail want to save money bring in a clocking in and out system then we will see if the early birds and runners come in early and clock out at 12 midday with two and a half hours left on their duty that's twelve and a half hours docked from their wages every week that will save Royal Mail a mint. The clocking machines will pay for themselves the first week.

[OnAFlyer]

Lapsing what is that ive never done it and never will i manage my working day breaks taken etc finish on my time every day and if i can't manage what i have on the odd occasion it stays in.people need to realise this when you get paid by the hour you are expected to work those hours .this is the only job i have ever done where people start early thick as f**k comes to mind.

So you finish the same time on a Tuesday with nothing on as you do on a Wed/thur/fri?

You're either running around when it's busy or taking the p*ss when it's light, if you worked in my office you'd be collapsing on a light day unless you had an issue with a bulk posting etc.

'Im working my hours' doesn't wash when half the frame is empty. No wonder RM feel they can get more out of deliveries, people are quick to blame the runners but there are plenty taking the p*ss as your post shows.

[chrisj]

A bit harsh! You are failing to account for the contractual later start and earlier times on Tuesday. So the postie could still be finishing on his time especially if he paced himself, took all his breaks (including toilet or smoke breaks), took out his 1/6 D2Ds etc. And you can add the odd WTLL to the equation...

Yes, there are times when there is no a lot to fill the time but not every walk is the same - some walks are always hard and some might just be busy even on a day when a lot of others are not.

He is within his right to pace himself and be reasonable without necessarily taking the michael.

Wed, Thurs & Friday start 6.40am and finish 2.48pm
Tues start 7.30am and finish 2.18pm
Mon start 7.00am and finish 2.48pm
Sat start 6.30am and finish 2.18 or 2.48 (dont really know)

[BernardBresslaw]

Lapsing what is that ive never done it and never will i manage my working day breaks taken etc finish on my time every day and if i can't manage what i have on the odd occasion it stays in.people need to realise this when you get paid by the hour you are expected to work those hours .this is the only job i have ever done where people start early thick as f**k comes to mind.

So you finish the same time on a Tuesday with nothing on as you do on a Wed/thur/fri?

You're either running around when it's busy or taking the p*ss when it's light, if you worked in my office you'd be collapsing on a light day unless you had an issue with a bulk posting etc.

'Im working my hours' doesn't wash when half the frame is empty. No wonder RM feel they can get more out of deliveries, people are quick to blame the runners but there are plenty taking the p*ss as your post shows.

If you are post-revision, your Tuesday hours should be shorter to accommodate for lower traffic. There are also things you should be doing to fill your time, like cleaning your van, hoovering it out etc. if you do these things on a Tuesday then it fills your day. It's not taking the piss, it's using your brain.

[chrisj]

Good point Bernard, filling the van with fuel and doing comprehensive checks is something I normally do on a Tuesday.

[fishtank]

If you are post-revision...

Not all offices are the same which is a mistake some make on here, some have long and shorts and some don't, some have 4 day weeks with 9hr 45min days and 9 day fortnights with 9hr days, some built their revision on low model traffic and will very seldom lapse and some choose higher model weeks where they will lapse often, some are carrying full-time vacancies and will lapse mainly indoor etc,etc.....
For some their revision was 3 years ago and the traffic has declined in that time.

There is no definitive delivery office model so anybody saying thou shall not lapse under any circumstances is having a laugh.

[chrisj]

However, OnaFlyer is frequent poster here so he/she should be more aware of the differences between offices and should give the poster the benefit of doubt on the issue of finish times.

However, I agree that lapsing is not something one postie can avoid forever except he is one of the 'untouchables' -

Even pre-revison - our Tuesday start and finish times have always been different to the rest of the week.

[BernardBresslaw]

If you are post-revision...

Not all offices are the same which is a mistake some make on here, some have long and shorts and some don't, some have 4 day weeks with 9hr 45min days and 9 day fortnights with 9hr days, some built their revision on low model traffic and will very seldom lapse and some choose higher model weeks where they will lapse often, some are carrying full-time vacancies and will lapse mainly indoor etc,etc.....
For some their revision was 3 years ago and the traffic has declined in that time.

There is no definitive delivery office model so anybody saying thou shall not lapse under any circumstances is having a laugh.

My point was more that you can always fill your time, not necessarily by delivering extra mail. I do absorption when asked, but it then takes priority, and the van has to stay dirty till another time. I'd sweep the floors of the office if asked, but I will still only work my hours. It's what I'm being paid for. Blanket refusal of absorption, under all circumstances, is ridiculous.

[korky]

regardless of different start/finish times we are all contracted to work "x" number of hours
i'm p/t and been starting early for quite a while, i prep other duties up for an hour, most are on the same hours as me (1f/t+1p/t pairings)
friday id spent an hour overtime prepping someones duty and got done 50 mins early, result was i either go out and do more of the others left in or forfeit the hour i'd done earlier!
we don't have the easiest round going, probably closer to the worst in fact, as all others dread ours, but we are a good team and very efficient, not runners!
my bug bear is i now get penalized, we cant "slow down" as its not our nature, neither can we speed up,
basically i could go in on f/t hours and "maybe" get paid it now, and not trying to blow my own trumpet, but i am quick.
saturday i started at 8am when everyone on my aisle were doing their packets and got done before most.
our managers are now clamping down on those who are quicker than others, which ain't right.
RM's loss, once bitten twice shy.

[fishtank]

RM are now clamping down on those who are quicker than others, which ain't right..

They aren't clamping down, They are fully utilising your hours. If you are doing the job properly and still finishing early it makes complete sense to give you extra work.You aren't being victimised in any way, you are just being asked to do the same as anyone else, work your hours.

You could moan that you're being asked to do more work than someone else but that's difficult to measure as no two rounds are the same in this job and neither are any two days but at the end of the day nobody is asking you to run around and nobody is asking you to slow down, just find a comfortable pace for you and your partner and be prepared to work your paid hours or in the case of overtime only be paid for the hours you work.

[korky]

RM are now clamping down on those who are quicker than others, which ain't right..

They aren't clamping down, They are fully utilising your hours. If you are doing the job properly and still finishing early it makes complete sense to give you extra work.You aren't being victimised in any way, you are just being asked to do the same as anyone else, work your hours.

You could moan that you're being asked to do more work than someone else but that's difficult to measure as no two rounds are the same in this job and neither are any two days but at the end of the day nobody is asking you to run around and nobody is asking you to slow down, just find a comfortable pace for you and your partner and be prepared to work your paid hours or in the case of overtime only be paid for the hours you work.

i half understand what you say, but i've done most duties and know ours is far from easy compared to others based on my own speeds.
i know people walk at different speeds, which is natural, but the indoor work should be the same rate, we can get out 45 mins earlier with a similar work load than others, we then get penalized for it

[OnAFlyer]

However, OnaFlyer is frequent poster here so he/she should be more aware of the differences between offices and should give the poster the benefit of doubt on the issue of finish times.

However, I agree that lapsing is not something one postie can avoid forever except he is one of the 'untouchables' -

Even pre-revison - our Tuesday start and finish times have always been different to the rest of the week.

Our Tuesday hours are shorter but it still doesn't balance out the difference in mail, nor does proper van checks etc.

Yes, you can fill your time by cleaning, hoovering, general time wasting etc but you can't use that as an excuse not to lapse, so I can't see how people are not doing it when Tuesdays have 50% of the mail of a wed/thur/fri.

Maybe it's only our office that has absolutely nothing on most Tuesdays. Somehow I doubt it, and when RM come asking those who are 'filling their time' to lapse there is more often than not going to be no excuses.