I shall be voting "yes"

[fishtank]

Fish , As a rep and I know many others I am not interested in what some call the revenue stream , I am only interested the members I represent and the CWU as a whole. The area I am responsible is a strong area but it's strong because the Branch's and the Divisional reps communicate and meet the members on a regular basis and if we cannot achieve what we want in negotiations , we react in a united way. of course we have disagreements and heated debates and some units are stronger than others but Every London branch got over 92^ yes vote in the industrial action ballot the highest in the UK and that's not because we bother about union finances it's cause we in the representation businesses and we listen and the members support us .

Already agreements are being made that affect your members that reflect weaknesses in other areas.
The mess deliveries are in is down to weaknesses in CWU organisation in other areas, any resolution of the delivery issues will be based on what Royal Mail can get away with in the majority of the country not the strength of your area. So we will have an agreement that completely castrates any strength you think you have.

You need to understand that you can no longer survive in isolation as an area,You will be forced to implement changes that will reflect the overall strength of the union, not the individual strength of the London members who if you are honest are only strong now in certain areas of London and have already been weakened by mailcentre closures and Royal Mail deliberately redrawing the boundaries to split the London members.

Collectively we are a strong union, As some kind of franchised collection of local unions there is only one direction we are heading in and that's downwards.

[Martin Walsh]

We are not a London union but we do support each other and this works for everyone, When no London offices would agree a revision unless FTCs over two years were made up to permanent . We have now made up over over 100 FTCs.

I would not agree with your assumption that only parts of London are strong. Yes within any branch we have strong units but all have supported the CWU. For example North London have completed their transformation plan and all units including reserves have either 1 in 4 Saturdays off or less. Some units have the 4 day week. None have more than 4 hour 15 mins delivery span plus Mira's. None have been sent at 100 BSI.

East London has almost finished their revision programme and have the largest delivery point growth in Western Europe.

West London done their £800 revisions some 18 months ago and some have done their £200.

EC1-4 , W1 and WC have done their revisions.

South West London , South East London and North West have over 30 revisions still to be done and this is what we we are working on currently.

Fish the Mail centre closures meant London lost some good reps and members but our loss is others gain. The Area Processing rep for Croydon and Medway are ex Nine Elms reps , we have reps from London now at HWDC and Romford.

The Mount Is a power base with Rathbone now in their.

London as the industrial action ballot result showed is still powerful and I have seen all the branch results and sadly some were not the greatest less than half the Branch's got lower than the average 78% some just over 52%.

We are a strong union which is in needs of genuine reform which I support but it should never be just about union bashing for the sake of it? members need to be realistic as well. I believe in a branch reorganisation building on what goes well in some areas and Divisions and what does not. I don't believe that removing Divisions and Branch's and handing power to local reps will ever improve the union and it the system when the union was a mess during the 80s.

I do think some Branch's are too big and do not offer the best representation in the same way some geographical areas are too big for a branch to properly organise.

[dvbuk55]

The union as a union no longer exists. It has become embedded within Royal Mail by the leaders own admission and that means exactly what it says. It is no longer an independent organisation but one entrenched in the mores of the company whereby the concerns and issues of the members becomes of secondary importance. They look on the membership merely as the cash cow to enable them to sit at the big boys table and nod assent at anything and everything mooted as modern and progressive.

It isn't true to say the union needs a re-organisation, what it needs is a new organisation, one that has new energy, one that has experienced the modern delivery methods and is less concerned with the company and more concerned with the members.

[DirtyHarry]

The union as a union no longer exists. It has become embedded within Royal Mail by the leaders own admission and that means exactly what it says. It is no longer an independent organisation but one entrenched in the mores of the company whereby the concerns and issues of the members becomes of secondary importance. They look on the membership merely as the cash cow to enable them to sit at the big boys table and nod assent at anything and everything mooted as modern and progressive.

It isn't true to say the union needs a re-organisation, what it needs is a new organisation, one that has new energy, one that has experienced the modern delivery methods and is less concerned with the company and more concerned with the members.

Well said, mate.

[claretandblue]

This new industrial reationship does it include sacking a area rep wiht over 30 years service 4 days after christmas ?

Let's hope Stuart gets his job back with the support of the members and the CWU.

The new agreements has nothing to do with the decision but for the new agreement to work it must resolve these kind of issues and better still stop these from happening.

The new flashpoint part of the agreement if it's voted in is an early warning system to try and stop such things happening in the future.

However Stuart needs all the support of the CWU and let's hope that the new agreement can help to get him reinstated.

Well lets hope the national union backs us up, we put in for an official ballot before christmas but can't get no answer as no one works at christmas so we had no choice but to walk out.

[Glenno]

Well lets hope the national union backs us up, we put in for an official ballot before christmas but can't get no answer as no one works at christmas so we had no choice but to walk out
Piss poor service from those that count, even when on Annuals there should be a " contact point"
Oh my God I feel the blood rising

[worktotime]

One of the strands in the National Delivery Review actually states...

13. Exploring the impact of resourcing mix and contract types to identify opportunities to improve efficiency and deal with workload variations

That isn't going to improve matters,It's hard to see how "improving efficiency and dealing with workload variations" can mean more full-time jobs.

Fish as you know there are a number of different things within that strand including exploring resourcing methods , seasonal variations etc.

In it is what I previously stated is the use of PDAs to identify actual delivery performance which you did not believe was going to happen.

The review on this subject is quite comprehensive and includes traffic check , methods checks , mix of Mail including D2D.

Some on here believe that there is some magic wand to be used on deliveries but there is not resolving issues of the past won't necessary help delivery staff for the future. TNT will impact on all urban deliveries , the trials in London demonstrate that there are many providers who currently use downstream access who will move to total by pass if it saves money and it does and then on selective items go back to downstream.

Parcels which currently make up almost 50% of Royal Mails revenue are in an highly competitive market where the consumer expects more.

We all know that Monday and Tuesday are normally lighter days , but some have a lot of retentions on a Monday and tracked can be higher. Wednesday is normally the heaviest day with Thursday to Saturday roughly the same. January to March is quite a low traffic period , the lead up to the end of the financial year being heavy , then from May to September lighter with August being the lowest. From September to December being first heavy with Autumn pressure and then Xmas.

Yet apart from Xmas when some have extra firms vans and extra hours all delivery offices have the same amount of HCTs , CDVs , firms etc in August when traffic is at its lowest as they do in October when traffic is at its highest. Most office still have a flat leave spread meaning that in August when there is low traffic they have the same numbers off as in October when apart form Xmas we have the most traffic. This means in the summer absorption often results in people being taken off their duty. In fact in some units vacancies are not being covered to all more absorption.

The role of the working group by visiting offices and speaking to reps and members is to see how this can be tackled. One of the things which can be done is more people who want the school holidays off in July and August could have it when traffic is lower. To help family friendly policies some could have their contract changed to have most school holidays off and meaning when traffic is higher they will work more hours.

The other issues which needs to be explore with PDAs being able to track staff absorption will not be going away. In the summer absorption is at its highest . Whilst no one like absorption , the biggest complaint is unplanned and unfair absorption. Well if I was a local rep and I was once and when there was lapsing during the summer I planned a different duty set for the summer so everyone knew in advance what they were doing in the main and the second was they got to share in any saving made from the lapsing which is where the incentive schemes comes in.

In terms of the current claim that we have not got a 75/25 ratio of the ft to pt , well the 75/25 was the claim after the BT Revisions have finished , clearly we still have loads of revisions to introduce and therefore there still lots of part FTCs who are employed on an fixed term contract who may or may not have a job once the revision has been introduced.

dingo lapsing has nothing to do with extra holidays ,working your contracted hours , etc its all about saving money , last year we lapsed 8 dutys a day mon - sat from jan to nov , and was told we are not doing enough as we aren't hitting our budget 4% higher than the year before so wasn't saving ,so the incentive scheme would just be a joke and its not all about money , weve been in our wonderful p&l for 4 years now and its still a mess oh and still awaiting the payments for it , mine and my partners duty is 5 hrs on a slack day and 5.30 - 6 hrs on a normal busy day , all people want to do is go into work in the morning and do your job and not have arguments everyday with the doms why you cant do the extra , oh and when you do it not get paid for doing so , and you contact the area rep and he does jack s**t to help and the cwu want workers to vote yes.

[BernardBresslaw]

Dingo has already made it clear that the union doesn't care about what goes on outside London so it is up to staff to look after themselves, which unfortunately means arguments every day.

[DirtyHarry]

Believe you, me........The CWU couldn't give two shytes about the workloads of posties in London, anymore than they do elsewhere in the country.

[BernardBresslaw]

Believe you, me........The CWU couldn't give two shytes about the workloads of posties in London, anymore than they do elsewhere in the country.

I do a 6 hour delivery and am still expected to lapse. I'm betting no London delivery comes close to that

[DirtyHarry]

Believe you, me........The CWU couldn't give two shytes about the workloads of posties in London, anymore than they do elsewhere in the country.

I do a 6 hour delivery and am still expected to lapse. I'm betting no London delivery comes close to that

If you do a 6 hour delivery, after what, 2-3 hrs of prep? I suspect, like us here, you have no time to do lapsing, surely?
Thing is, the pigs we slave for will always ask for the extra pound of flesh off us.

[Martin Walsh]

Dingo has already made it clear that the union doesn't care about what goes on outside London so it is up to staff to look after themselves, which unfortunately means arguments every day.

Bernard your talking rubbish and misquoting me. By all means oppose the agreement and debate or disagree with my opinion but don't stoop so low to try and say the union don't care.

For the record I am a rep from London so I represent those members. However I have been in support and visited and stood on picket lines and March to support those on strike in Belfast , Burslem , Bristol , Oxford and Liverpool. I am a trade unionist , but I am not one who simply believes that all the ills of the job are down to the CWU and the agreements. Royal Mail has seen unfair competition , a frightening pension deficit , the digital revolution , declining letter traffic , automation and successive governments wanting to sell the company.

The CWU have had to take hard decisions and we have had more national ballots in the last 10 years then we had in the previously 40 years. Most postal administrations have had to take the same decisions and some of the CWUs have been hard and unpopular like D2D into workload. Royal Mail were never going to continue to see this growth in the Mail business being strangled by having a cap on it and having. Poor quality. The CWU agreed a permanent supplement and this Mail has grown in some areas.

The CWU have supported many a local rep and area rep who have been sacked and will do again. There is a different reps procedure involving an independent appeal.

The CWU have defended national pay negotiations despite numerous attempts to pay the rate of each geography area. No complusory redundancies , RRIS payments . Paid meal reliefs , MTSF . They are all good agreements.

The BT2010 agreement did not have a set span as if you choose one of the menu of options of less Saturdays then you could have a slightly longer span but I do get really concerned when someone comes on here and say that they have a 5 hour plus delivery span and have to ask why was this agreed. it's is unachievable and unrealistic unless you have a 4 day week.

[DirtyHarry]

Even with mech sorted boxes, the fewer and fewer bodies on the IPS means there must be at least 2 hours prepping the walk, then there's the 20 minute break, and with deliveries on average ranging from 4.5-5hrs, there is something wrong if you're doing absorption.

Nothing can stop management expecting you to absorb, only time, the lack of it.

[chrisj]

Any incentive agreed upon must be protected just like the T&C otherwise the employer will have you working harder and giving a lot of goodwill to make savings... and after they have established that you can indeed work a bit harder and go the extra mile, they will simply remove the incentive - just like the 50/50 savings split.

From what I gathered the 50/50 incentive thingy was not sown down for posties but the managers got proper protection and they continue to enjoy bonus payment from such a scheme - and continue to make posties work even harder for their bonuses... Am I wrong?

[fishtank]

The BT2010 agreement did not have a set span as if you choose one of the menu of options of less Saturdays then you could have a slightly longer span but I do get really concerned when someone comes on here and say that they have a 5 hour plus delivery span and have to ask why was this agreed. it's is unachievable and unrealistic unless you have a 4 day week.

If a span was agreed 3 years ago at 4 hrs 15 minutes and in that time your indoor performance has improved by 5-10% due to indoor methods and your traffic has declined by maybe another 10% further reducing your indoor workload what do you think is going to happen to the span?

That's what happens when you agree a span as an enabler....it has to keep enabling either full-time work or attendance patterns and with the focus on improving performance,packet automation on the horizon and structural letter decline continuing the spans are only going to go one way.

We need a new delivery model and it may have to be one that accepts a far higher proportion of part-time staff then anyone really wanted. 5 hr first to last letter delivery spans are physically unsustainable and that's something both parties just have to accept.