I shall be voting "yes"

[Martin Walsh]

Fish it is not being cocky it is a fact that other trade unions have already expressed.

Yes it will all need to be tested and of course it is still to be agreed by the membership. Bob Crow recently said in an interview on LBC that the reason why the RMT have so many disputes is that they have to deal with so many franchises.

Do you really think he would not have wanted a deal on no franchising when the railways were privatised.

TBT I suppose only those in opposition are entitled to an opinion and those who like myself share a different point of view suddenly are open to be criticised.

For the record the CWU have always argued for change the CWU wanted death in service on pensions , wanted the instalment of the 9:30 last letter and then campaign for one delivery when full time jobs were being lost when 95% of the work was being done on the first delivery , we have campaigned for the 5 day week , the increase in pay , harmonisation of part time terms and conditions before the law changed , we also campaigned for shorter working hours and hundreds of other. Policies which most have come from postmen and women at conferences and Branch's of the CWU.

So a lot of what the union thinks have come from reps and via meetings with members. it is normal for unions to argue for the members on issues. That's not in a cocky know all manner but should be based on speaking to members in workplaces and creating policy.

[dvbuk55]

So a lot of what the union thinks have come from reps and via meetings with members. it is normal for unions to argue for the members on issues. That's not in a cocky know all manner but should be based on speaking to members in workplaces and creating policy.

Well if that was true then why is there such a disparity between what the union thinks and what the members think? Incidentally the union should be entirely thinking want the members think we're the ones paying their bills. As for policy, don't make me laugh, the policy is to agree to as much as RM want without upsetting the membership too much whilst maintaining their own status quo - but this time they may well have bitten off more than they can chew hopefully.
As for what other unions think of the CWU - who cares? - it's what we think that matters.

[BernardBresslaw]

Reminding us of past union glories isn't really helping dingo as it just reminds us how hard and fast they have plummeted!

[fishtank]

Yes it will all need to be tested and of course it is still to be agreed by the membership. Bob Crow recently said in an interview on LBC that the reason why the RMT have so many disputes is that they have to deal with so many franchises.

Do you really think he would not have wanted a deal on no franchising when the railways were privatised.

Is there any real evidence to suggest that Royal Mail have actually considered the franchising model as a genuine option?
There is a big difference between half a dozen franchised rail companies running on a government subsidised rail network and basically franchising 1500 separate business units running loss making/break even delivery operations.
I don't really believe franchising is even a viable option for Royal Mail at the moment although I'm aware that's only an opinion.I think it's just another boogeyman.

[dvbuk55]

FT makes a good point, is there any evidence that the franchise suggestion came from RM or did the CWU just say "we don't want franchising" and RM said OK.
The "LEGALLY BINDING" elements aren't worth a light, as for taking RM to court over every tiff, ridiculous, it's legalese to bamboozle the troops.

[Martin Walsh]

Royal Mail have been look at the franchised delivery model for years . It's a very easy option either franchise some delivery routes or areas. The Dutch Model is very similar.

Sometimes I wish for some of you the union did not exist and then you can see in reality what Royal Mail would look like without the CWU negotiating for you.

[fishtank]

Sometimes I wish for some of you the union did not exist and then you can see in reality what Royal Mail would look like without the CWU negotiating for you.

Sometimes I wish union officials would understand that the CWU is not doing the members a good turn out of the goodness of its heart but only exists because the members pay for it to do the negotiating for them.

Without the CWU we would definitely have poorer terms and conditions,without the money the members provide the union and those on its payroll would have what exactly?

[chrisj]

Further on franchising:

Can you give us an example how franchising will work? Especially for a company like RM that has just been privatised and has its good name to uphold, the USO, competition factors; and who will want an RM franchise especially in delivery of letters - it is a loss leader as it is.

As you said, RM has looked at franchising for a number of years and they know that it will be a failure and will eventually lead to a break up of their company - why would they want that?

RM will be stupid to franchise its parcel division because the competition will just love that.

Are you forgetting Angard?

Scare tactics!!! How good is the Dutch model exactly and how comparable is RM to the Dutch Post - I guess not that similar. The UK postal service is very unique in Europe...

[dvbuk55]

You wish that for some the CWU didn't exist dingo? Would that be the paying members dingo, what a wonderful life it would be for the glitterati and the hangers on with nothing to do. Well believe it or not the members would survive however bad things got but what on earth would all those we employ within the CWU and those who don't work now but would have to return to the daily grindstone within RM, I'd forecast a wailing and gnashing of teeth. I hear the age old refrain "we are the union" to which there's not much credence BUT when it comes to finances we are definitely the union and without money there's no gravy train and no soapbox.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

How good is the Dutch model exactly and how comparable is RM to the Dutch Post - I guess not that similar. The UK postal service is very unique in Europe...

Not good - bad

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 18&t=50704" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Guardian Story http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/apr/ ... s-delivery" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and from the other end of the political spectrum the Dail mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... worse.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


enjoy

[chrisj]

Thanks for that. As i suspected...

RM will be cutting off its nose to spite its face if it goes along that route. So Franchising is a red herring and even if they wanted to the they will struggle to do so in the next 5 years.

If a franchise fails then the blame will be on RM - this is not like Kentucky Fried Chicken or Petrol Station where people invariably know that they are dealing with a franchise of a big company and where they can easily find an alternative.

[clashcityrocker]

Aren't some Parcelforce employees "owner/drivers"?
Don't they own their route?

Why would it be difficult to extend that to deliveries?

[fishtank]

I'm not even sure if Ofcom would allow franchising.
Their main remit is to secure the USO and it's difficult to see how that could be done with possibly thousands of individually franchised business units going bust or being sold/taken over on a regular basis.

[fishtank]

Why would it be difficult to extend that to deliveries?

No reasonable margin in final mile delivery.
Economy of scale makes it work for RM but in a franchise model with each link in the delivery network(RDC,Maicente,Distribution) looking for a margin you would be down to pennies by the final mile.
You could make money delivering leaflets but the indoor time needed for letters would kill any profits.

[dvbuk55]

Aren't some Parcelforce employees "owner/drivers"?
Don't they own their route?

Why would it be difficult to extend that to deliveries?

Do Parcelforce have to adhere to the USO? I'm not certain if they do but nevertheless their operation is on a much, much smaller scale. Is it feasible to franchise some, for example small rural DOs could quite easily be franchised. I know it's not quite the same but we used to have outworkers who worked from home and never came to the delivery office so there wouldn't really be much difference in franchising deliveries.