I shall be voting "yes"

[fishtank]

Yes there are issues with the battery but sadly technology now exists which will identify what time any walk or CDv finishes

I don't doubt for a minute that the technology exists but give our guys 5 minutes and they will find a way around it.
This sounds like pretty much a done deal anyway and to be honest the vast majority of the members in our DO have nothing to fear from this because they usually finish on or around their scheduled finish time anyway.
I would imagine this will be more of an issue in areas that are still consistently finishing early and without being too blunt I couldn't really care less about those areas because the agreement to utilise all paid hours is almost 7 years old now and they've had it good for long enough.

[Danelectro]

I also have recently been involved in some mails integrity issues and they have even identified how long someone was in a block of flats to understand why they left their HCT outside .
.

Without the need of the PDA technology our DSM already knows that HCT are being left for donkeys in order for him to not address H&S/Security issues and he don't give a monkeys.

[clashcityrocker]

Yes there are issues with the battery but sadly technology now exists which will identify what .......

Why sadly?

[dvbuk55]

Well I can pretty much guarantee that unless they update the PDAs we have had for over three years they'll be on a loser because I very much doubt they are capable of furnishing the data dingo says is available with the current software installed. Anyone who works with these miserable excuses for technical innovation knows they are really not up to the simple task of recording deliveries. Our officers used cards over the Christmas period in case the damn thing broke down.

See I recently had a parcel delivered by DPD it gave an hour slot, a text 15 minutes before he arrived and told me the drivers name was Leroy and I could even track his vehicle on line - now they have the technology and as of now we don't. As of now we barely have the technology to keep the straps on let alone track anything other than the basic function.

[BoltonPostie]

All this guff with the IR framework is a complete waste of time,it's basically just the same shite that has been out for nearly 20 years that either side don't pay any attention to ...when i say both sides i mean the middle management CWU officials that even before this farce of a new agreement where happy to push under the carpet to stop any unrest...in our office we put a disagreement in over 3 months ago,it has supposedly been passed up to divisional and has as normal just disappeared into the ether like a fart in the wind.
It's a definite no just from the view point of being flexible and having to have a `can do` attitude as well as WCM being back on the agenda,we currently have two `managers` in our office looking at ways to `improve` systems...so that will be more lapsing and job cuts then.
Piece of s**t new agreement has not dealt with any of the issues in our office and it won't because we have a bully in charge but he makes savings year on year so that is o.k.

[dvbuk55]

The union need to spend more time pulling these ideas apart and coming up with better ways to do the job from the shop floor up. That way there might be a hope in hell deliveries will stop getting shafted at every turn of the screw because there are too many peoplke with ideas way above their abilities to do the actual job they are in charge of.

Back on topic...Still voting NO!!!!!!!!

Good choice voting NO Sugar and a really good post on the failings of Royal Mail trying to compete without the technology to do so and what makes it worse is precisely what you point out the union not questioning the modernisation process but blithely going along with it with Joint Statement this and Joint Statement that, embedding in the company and not really giving a toss about the outcome of these processes on the workforce.

[studmuffin]

Would not be surprised if RM cancel the whole lot before we get a chance to vote on it

If it does get voted in, it will not last 5 years

Will be lucky to see 2 years trouble free

Something will ' kick-off ' to ' activate ' one of the numerous get out clauses to end our t&c's

Not worth the paper it's written on

[Martin Walsh]

Sugar your are completely wrong in believing the reAsoj that TNT are capturing work of Royal Mail is that they are offer an earlier service they don't.. They don't deliver until 9 and they are out on the street to as late as 1700. The only reason they capture contracts is cause they offer a cheaper service. They pay their staff £7.10 per hour.

They only do letters and all letters are scanned. They have no service standards and they don't deliver everyday to the same place. Most customers opt to go to TNT on price and price alone. Harrods for example us TNT for the simple stuff but the heavier magiizene they come back to Royal Mail.

With TNT now havering the funding to roll out to all urban areas you will see for yourself that sadly the customer and that is the provider as well as the receiver want things as low as possible and then the best service they can get.

Royal Mail automation plan was designed on the basis of offer a cheaper service and CSS means that your can only sequence this Mail when your distant work is avalble and that is not till it clears your Mail centre from 0500 in the morning.

The safeguards the union has achieved on the protections from privatisation are the envy of the trade union movement. think no franchising , no outsourcing , no zero hour contracts , no break up of the company. Ask BT , or even the RMT if they would want those protections.

We are now a majority privitiased company and yet the CWU have secured these safeguards not just for 5 years but ongoing. With no end date. the first review is in 5 years and any changes they want to implemented are subject to a legal test and further negotations.

Those who hark back to the days when we were a public service and a monopoly have clearly not recognised that in Mail centres ans RDCS they lost 50% of their outward work due to competition and now that there is end to end competition they will not have that work on their inward as well? Delivery offices have not really seen the impact of competition as the DSA still continues to deliver the stuff well with TNT offering a rival delivery end to end service you can expect to lose between 5 and 10 % of your letter traffic in the first 12 to 18 months.

on deliveries the only way forward is to resolve the issues of the future including stopping bullying. it is not by trying to undo what has occurred over the last 3 or 4 years as much as we would like too. There has been a fratigue study done with heart monitors etc and the results will be published including action plans.

What do you really believe will happen in deliveries if the agreement was rejected that Royal Mail will reverse all changes or will they want to push forward where they can with their agenda to introduce more savings. , more absorption and banking hours. Some areas they won't be able too as they will fight others well you know what will happen.

[dvbuk55]

Yes Yes, we've heard it all before and from the same source, BT2010 was the deal of the century, we have achieved so much, blah blah, blah and look at the state of deliveries now - so much for the "new understanding, full involvement of the CWU, inclusion in forward planning" what a crock of crap and this will be no different. Frankly dingo most of us don't care what RM do, what we expect is that the people WE pay to protect us do just that and not make speeches as to how they've done the best they can, how they are now embedded in the company (what a disgraceful statement to be made by a union leader) . They had options before Christmas to bring this to a head much earlier and failed and now it is just a question of selling it to the troops. I believe all the pussyfooting around was to make the deal sound feasible to the membership, increase the back pay element to make it appear more attractive and get RM through Christmas

I just hope that people see this deal for what it is and once bitten twice shy.

[BernardBresslaw]

I'm surprised the whole 'TNT will be delivering your D2Ds!' Scare tactic hasn't been trotted out yet, given we were sold on the importance of that service, when we received our pay-cut after the last 'deal of the century'. I find it equally baffling why now even union representatives believe the lie that we are delivering less mail today. Shows just how out of touch they are with grassroots workers I guess.

[fishtank]

The safeguards the union has achieved on the protections from privatisation are the envy of the trade union movement. think no franchising , no outsourcing , no zero hour contracts , no break up of the company. Ask BT , or even the RMT if they would want those protections.

That kind of cockiness could come back to bite us on the arse,the safeguards haven't been tested yet and neither have the exceptions,they haven't even been agreed.

We've had many agreements that have been broken by RM before and I've still to hear what kind of sanctions the business would be hit with if they broke one of the legal protections.
There isn't much point in running to the courts if all the courts are going to do even if we win is tell RM to stop being a naughty boy.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Sadly at work today I was not able to counter a comment by a colleague.

He said the problem is no longer that Royal Mail think they know better than those who do the job, that's always been the case. But its that the Union now also has the same mind set.

[BernardBresslaw]

Sadly at work today I was not able to counter a comment by a colleague.

He said the problem is no longer that Royal Mail think they know better than those who do the job, that's always been the case. But its that the Union now also has the same mind set.

Spot on.

[chrisj]

BT is not even comparable in any shape or form. The telecoms industry is not like the delivery/courier industry. And as for the Trains, the less said about the artificial competition the better.

Basically, all we hear from dingo is that the only alternative is to vote Yes. So why put things to members when the Union themselves are fearing a doomsday scenario? I have always said election and ability to vote is overrated: I am still spoiling my ballot paper.

Why ask for members to vote for certain things like workload and fair pay for a fair days work when all along the Union is aware that there is no magic bullet and that the whole thing is covered (allegedly by the old agreement).

Dingo is spinning and campaigning but he should be showing a bit more humility rather than being so defensive and turning some people off by making light of people's concern.

The Union has put the members into almost impossible situation and it is now a take it or leave it or face the consequences... because the Union will wash its hands off its members - especially the folks in delivery.

Why should anyone be worried about PDA been used to monitor activities, why worry about banking hours as long as one does the job properly by coming in on time, using the equipment, not rushing around and not expecting to finish earlier than contracted time?

I think dingo is slightly wrong in the assessment that the Monday and Tuesday are usually quiet and that Thursday to Saturday are more or less the same in terms of traffic. It all just depends; and in my neck of the wood only those on very easy rounds get to consistently finish early.

Let Royal Mail bring all their technology to bear in terms of measuring traffic of all mail (not just some) and work done... All we ask our Union is to make sure that the exercise is carried out diligently and accurately - some of us have nothing whatsoever to fear.

[cyclemech1]

Dingo, one simple question bearing in mind TNT etc. are rolling out end to end in urban areas, they pay their staff less and that you have all these wonderfull safeguards in place.

How the hell are RM going to afford it ?