ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (Updated 2021)... HERE

ANNOUNCEMENT : PLEASE BE AWARE WE ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK AT ALL!

Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Latest Royal Mail and CWU news.This is an open forum.
TrueBlueTerrier
FORUM ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 72738
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 10:29
Gender: Male
Location: On my couch

Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/6f8e9216-6776 ... z2o1l4gJCJ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

‘In Canada almost half of mail delivery staff are women and in the US the proportion is 40 per cent’

This weekend an army of postal workers will deliver Christmas cards and other holiday packages across the western world. No surprise there: though we live in a cyber-age, December still produces a blizzard of mail in North America and Europe.
But in one respect, there is a quirky and little-noticed difference in this blizzard on both sides of the Atlantic. If you live in the UK, the person delivering your Christmas cards is probably a man. At present almost nine out of 10 of the Royal Mail’s “postmen” are male, a proportion that has barely changed in decades.

Normally this causes no comment. British children grow up watching programmes such as Postman Pat (and singing its irritating little song), which take it for granted that the post is delivered by men. Indeed, to my knowledge nobody has ever suggested creating a Postwoman Patricia.

But in reality it is not inevitable that mail delivery people should be male. In Canada, almost half of them are women and in the US the proportion is 40 per cent (and higher in rural areas). If anyone tried to start a kids’ show called Postman Pat in the US it would probably end up sparking lawsuits from the offended and excluded Patricias.

It is an issue that Moya Greene, the female chief executive officer of Royal Mail, has good reason to ponder. Greene was appointed to her post three years ago after building a career in Canada, or a place brimming with postwomen. When she arrived in Britain, she knew she would experience some change as a result of crossing the Atlantic: the Royal Mail had never had a female CEO and there are precious few women leaders at large British companies. But the stark contrast in gender patterns at the grassroots of the postal system took even her by surprise.

These days she – like most other senior postal managers – admits to being a little baffled about why this pattern persists. In the case of the Royal Mail, for example, it used to be presumed that men were naturally better at the job because women lacked the strength to carry postbags or walk and cycle for miles through bad British weather. There were also concerns that women might be vulnerable if they travelled by themselves to remote locations. But those arguments now seem hard to sustain, given that delivery staff usually push their stack of Christmas cards in trolleys or travel in vans. And these issues have not deterred women over in Canada or the US, never mind the fact that the weather there can be far more harsh. On the contrary, in America women have been handling mail and running post offices since the 19th century. As long ago as 1906, George Cortelyou, the postmaster general, declared that the role of “postmistress” was “clean and honourable” for women, partly because “no part of the Government’s work comes more in contact with the home and family than the postal service”. (In England, by contrast, it was generally assumed in this period that post offices should be run by men, since they needed to support their families and were better suited to community leadership.)

Though North American women did not start delivering mail in significant numbers until the 1970s, once they entered the ranks of the workforce, their numbers mushroomed. One reason for the disparity with the UK may be the unions: in this country some suspect that the unions have fought to preserve jobs and working practices in a fairly rigid manner, which means that the older generations of male postmen have largely stayed in place – and there has been less chance to hire new workers on flexible hours and change the gender balance. But another distinction is that during the course of the 20th century the US Postal Service came to be perceived as a good place for immigrants and ethnic minorities to find jobs, which forced a rethink of stereotypes in a wider sense.
. . .

Either way, perhaps the most interesting question to ask is whether this transatlantic split could now be healed.

Greene is certainly trying to do that. Royal Mail is working with consultants to find ways to counter what Kay Clements, its inclusion manager, describes as a “lack of confidence” among British postwomen. It is also actively recruiting female postal workers and extolling the family-friendly nature of a job which often finishes before the end of the school day. And Greene – who is an outspoken supporter of gender quotas in senior management roles – has been pulling more women into the upper echelons of Royal Mail. Indeed, at board level, 36 per cent of members are female.

But, despite a commitment to improving the gender balance across all areas of its business, nobody expects rapid change at the grassroots soon or not while unions remain so powerful (and so prickly after a highly controversial privatisation of the Royal Mail). So the next time you get a Christmas card, check to see who delivered it – and then reflect on the way that cultural patterns can shape gender roles, often in ways that we never even notice at all.
All post by me in Green are Admin Posts.
Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility.
If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link
My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by fishtank »

extolling the family-friendly nature of a job which often finishes before the end of the school day.
Lol. :cuppa
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
waveydavy
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
Posts: 55
Joined: 17 Oct 2013, 10:44
Gender: Male
Location: Rugby

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by waveydavy »

Yeah, that's what we need. Royal mail being taken over by Feminazis.
TrueBlueTerrier
FORUM ADMINISTRATOR
Posts: 72738
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 10:29
Gender: Male
Location: On my couch

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

waveydavy wrote:Yeah, that's what we need. Royal mail being taken over by Feminazis.
Looking forward to it mein fraulein.

Image
All post by me in Green are Admin Posts.
Any post in any other colour is my own responsibility.
If you like a news story I posted please click the link to show support Any news stories you can't post - PM me with a link
My sharing of news articles should not be interpreted as an endorsement or condemnation of any particular viewpoint or the issues presented. I share them solely for informational purposes.
waveydavy
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
Posts: 55
Joined: 17 Oct 2013, 10:44
Gender: Male
Location: Rugby

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by waveydavy »

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Judgee
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 2262
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 15:18

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by Judgee »

There's alot more women in deliveries now than when I started. Can't see why they have to push it to get more. Give the jobs to the people that want them be it man, woman or beast! :nana
Union what Union? Do we have a union?
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 16650
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
Gender: Male

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by dvbuk55 »

Well riveting reading, now for the clincher, there are more male than female: bricklayers, plumbers, lorry drivers, soldiers, sailors and airmen. Now there are more women teachers, check out staff, office workers, pole dancers, escorts and mums :cuppa
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by fishtank »

For information purposes.
The latest breakdown. :neutral:

Gender distribution Female Male
Board....................36.4% 63.6%
Senior Managerial ...27.4% 72.6%
Managerial ............19.0% 81.0%
Administration .......58.4% 41.6%
Operational ...........14.3% 85.7%
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 16650
Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 19:17
Gender: Male

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by dvbuk55 »

fishtank wrote:For information purposes.
The latest breakdown. :neutral:

Gender distribution Female Male
Board....................36.4% 63.6%
Senior Managerial ...27.4% 72.6%
Managerial ............19.0% 81.0%
Administration .......58.4% 41.6%
Operational ...........14.3% 85.7%

It's as I always suspected men are better than women................and better drivers too :nervous
axeman
Posts: 1733
Joined: 12 Jun 2007, 17:57

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by axeman »

More women that explains the attitude of senior management , also explains the complete hash they are making of royal fail, well soon have a crèche in the board room my opinion is most women (not all) make seriously bad managers
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by fishtank »

axeman wrote:most women (not all) make seriously bad managers
In 20 years I've only worked for two female managers,one was absolutely brilliant and the other was absolutely terrible.
Of the 20 or so male managers I've worked for I would say that maybe 1 or 2 were really good,another 4 or 5 were decent and the rest were either incompetent or arseholes or in some cases both so on that small sample I think I would have to disagree with you.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
clashcityrocker
Posts: 16700
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 13:50
Gender: Male
Location: strummerville

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by clashcityrocker »

axeman wrote:More women that explains the attitude of senior management , also explains the complete hash they are making of royal fail, well soon have a crèche in the board room my opinion is most women (not all) make seriously bad managers
Is it 1950?
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
Judgee
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 2262
Joined: 23 Oct 2007, 15:18

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by Judgee »

clashcityrocker wrote:
axeman wrote:More women that explains the attitude of senior management , also explains the complete hash they are making of royal fail, well soon have a crèche in the board room my opinion is most women (not all) make seriously bad managers
Is it 1950?

Watch out Axeman Mr PC is after you! :roll:
Union what Union? Do we have a union?
axeman
Posts: 1733
Joined: 12 Jun 2007, 17:57

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by axeman »

1of 2 that really throws your averages out :cuppa are you saying 50% are good then ... lets be honest most women think they are right even when wrong and no compromise :shock: royal mails managers are not exactly the finest I agree but
things being what they are then I'll stick to my guns :chuckle
saga
Posts: 66
Joined: 18 May 2007, 17:08
Location: west midlands

Re: Why there’s no Postwoman Patricia

Post by saga »

Just like to say, there was a postie Patricia. I know this because I was she ( before I retired) :Very Happy
saga