Billy Ray wrote:Surely now as the majority of staff are now shareholders we can oppose this load of crap wcm.
I would imagine that now we are privatised the secrecy over the real cost of the WCM project will no longer fly and major shareholders will want to see a cost/benefit breakdown.
I doubt they will be very impressed by "projected", "possible" or "imaginary" savings either.If it doesn't pay it won't play and just like the advice being given to planners now a lot of WCM managers will be told to look for another role possibly outside RMG.
BarnsleyLackey wrote:Can someone just tell me what wcm means we've to do? I never seem to be able to get a straight answer at our place
Is there any crap in it meaning we've to be flexible with our finish times? Ordinarily, I'd tell anyone asking about finish times - If you want to finish on time, you tell
the management and you leave mail for covering. - But with all the silly small print, and sly managerial techniques, it's hard to keep track and get straight answers.
Over time is voluntary you can just work your contracted hours, the problem comes when like a Tuesday your finished before your time and a manager thinks he can ask you to take early Finnish and pay it back later in the week "which is in the new deal agreed by union calling it swings and roundabouts" anyway you can stay at work and just work your contracted hours.
BarnsleyLackey wrote:Can someone just tell me what wcm means we've to do? I never seem to be able to get a straight answer at our place
Is there any crap in it meaning we've to be flexible with our finish times? Ordinarily, I'd tell anyone asking about finish times - If you want to finish on time, you tell
the management and you leave mail for covering. - But with all the silly small print, and sly managerial techniques, it's hard to keep track and get straight answers.
Over time is voluntary you can just work your contracted hours, the problem comes when like a Tuesday your finished before your time and a manager thinks he can ask you to take early Finnish and pay it back later in the week "which is in the new deal agreed by union calling it swings and roundabouts" anyway you can stay at work and just work your contracted hours.
well if we go over thursday and friday we can ask for an early finish on a saturday then. lets see how long they stick to their ''swings and roundabouts'' when that scenario presents itself.
Fish I salute you for not rising to Brain (POSTMAN EDIT) 's taunts and providing a thoughtful and factual precis of the way this Japanese rubbish is being implemented into a business that not even Moya Greene would have a clue from day to day of the amount of resourcing that is required to cover that days work. No doubt Bri is very happy to support WCM as it enables the likes of him to hide away from doing a proper managerial job including holding weekly resourcing meetings with the unit rep, holding and chairing a organised WTL session weekly and listening to concerns raised and agreeing action plans. Dealing with grievances in time scales laid down, getting holiday rotas out in time, the list goes on and on. Only problem is they have little or no training, and certainly no people training and so are either spouting out the jibe that come from the powers above them, or latch on to something like WCM that even a primary school child could deal with.
Last edited by POSTMAN on 17 Dec 2013, 22:27, edited 2 times in total.
Reason:RULES:If someone has a different position to you please respect their right to have differing views.../Please do not in any circumstances resort to name calling or behaviour that could be deemed as bullying or harassment.
And Markis statement that the term WCM is going to disappear - not a chance.[/quote]
If it's part of the new agreement then I suppose it won't disappear. But as far as I'm aware it has, as the CWU notified all coaches a few months back. So if it's back on RM are not using the terminology in DO's as all union members there know the CWU has opted out of it. The real reason as I've mentioned in getting more coaches is not for WCM but to replace managers.
When WCM was introduced into Cardiff the savings far outstripped the cost. Fact.
Diagrams, drawings, scotches, paper mashed models, stickabrick models and what ever else is used to show the inspection teams that the management know what they are doing so they can get a big shiny star!
You have missed the point bullshit baffles brains but changes in production bring about savings!
Call it what you want, sit there and pretend it's going to go away!
It will not.
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.
John Stuart Mill
pcb wrote:When WCM was introduced into Cardiff the savings far outstripped the cost. Fact.
Diagrams, drawings, scotches, paper mashed models, stickabrick models and what ever else is used to show the inspection teams that the management know what they are doing so they can get a big shiny star!
You have missed the point bullshit baffles brains but changes in production bring about savings!
Call it what you want, sit there and pretend it's going to go away!
It will not.
Well people in mail centres probably need the day spelled out in coloured crayons but in deliveries we produce the goods day after day
Lincox wrote:Fish I salute you for not rising to Brain(POSTMAN EDIT) 's taunts and providing a thoughtful and factual precis of the way this Japanese rubbish is being implemented into a business that not even Moya Greene would have a clue from day to day of the amount of resourcing that is required to cover that days work. No doubt Bri is very happy to support WCM as it enables the likes of him to hide away from doing a proper managerial job including holding weekly resourcing meetings with the unit rep, holding and chairing a organised WTL session weekly and listening to concerns raised and agreeing action plans. Dealing with grievances in time scales laid down, getting holiday rotas out in time, the list goes on and on. Only problem is they have little or no training, and certainly no people training and so are either spouting out the jibe that come from the powers above them, or latch on to something like WCM that even a primary school child could deal with.
Oh the irony! Of course if you had bothered to read the posts instead of simply leaping to assumptions and ad hominem attack then you would know that I have had little personal involvement with WCM. If and when I do I won't be chucking my teddy about it because I shall simply being doing my job. I was interested to learn that WCM won't work in principle because CI is theoretically impossible and in any case only a front for job cuts. I don't think statement is correct. However we've moved on from the theoretical / factual to practical / opinion now which really isn't worth debating. However, your attempt to link implementation of WCM with your perceived shortcomings in DO management are a complete red herring. I expect next time it will be that WCM gives you cancer. As I said, nobody is going to try to make you get involved but the CWU isn't going to make it go away either.
RULES wrote:Please remember everyone is welcome on this site. Customers, CWU Officers, Royal Mail Managers, all Royal Mail employees, the General Public, the press,and even MPs, so please do not resort to abuse if people of a different political persuasion or viewpoint to you, post on a thread.
If someone has a different position to you please respect their right to have differing views, and enjoy yourself when picking holes in their position in a constructive way. We would much rather have a long winded well thought out argument, picking out weak points in someone's position, than have a thread full of 1 line insults.
Please do not in any circumstances resort to name calling or behaviour that could be deemed as bullying or harassment.
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been. My BFF Clash The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
This is the problem Brain Fury. Not all, but many managers are (Just doing their job), which involves carrying out instructions from above that are at conflict with the current National Agreements and all in the name of budget cuts and savings. If you managers were to stand together and reject instructions that you know full well are contrary to the agreements, and kick out the bullying and harassment which goes hand in hand with implementing these instructions, you may find that us posties will support and have greater respect for your grades.
Lincox wrote:This is the problem Brain Fury. Not all, but many managers are (Just doing their job), which involves carrying out instructions from above that are at conflict with the current National Agreements and all in the name of budget cuts and savings. If you managers were to stand together and reject instructions that you know full well are contrary to the agreements, and kick out the bullying and harassment which goes hand in hand with implementing these instructions, you may find that us posties will support and have greater respect for your grades.
I can't comment on the adherence to national agreements because I am not involved in those sort of issues for the front line. The same goes for B&H. I am sure it happens but I think one of the major problems is a lack of consensus between posties, the CWU and Royal Mail about what constitutes B&H. I think it is unlikely that there ever will be.
There is nothing which I am required to do in my current role which causes me any qualms about its legitimacy or morality and if and when I get involved with WCM neither will that.
WCM won't go away, they have simply spent far too much on it to throw it away. What people need to do is tackle it head on, get involved and stop the managers from pushing idiotic plans and practices by using the same stuff against them...
At my mail centre (not currently due to the agreement situation) the staff will voice their objections to the reps and then they ask the WCM pillars to explain and prove how the changes will be beneficial to everyone. After that we have a trial period of up to 4 weeks and if it doesn't work or doesn't start showing the benefits to both sides it gets removed until it is ready to be adjusted and re-trialled in the same manner.
The problem with WCM is that it's a tool for change and unfortunately there are too many people that do nothing but moan rather than actively do something about it. You don't need to do the stupid colouring in and pathetic little graphs, you can leave that to the kiss arses.
Brain Fury wrote:
There is nothing which I am required to do in my current role which causes me any qualms about its legitimacy or morality and if and when I get involved with WCM neither will that.
Of course it won't. At the moment, you are being paid a huge amount to play around in chat rooms and if your surplus position is resolved and they find you a unit, your pay will outweigh any qualms you might have about the legitimacy and morality of whatever you are asked to do, Brain Fairy.
Note: The Brain Fairy is like the Tooth Fairy and the reference is not a comment on Brain Fairy's sexual orientation or intended to insult anyone's sexual orientation. The Brain Fairy takes away people's brains and leaves them with money instead.
Bullying and Harassment is not a consensus decided upon by Posties, the CWU and Royal Mail. They are conditions laid down by statute within employment law. They are broken on a daily basis by front line managers, no doubt under undue pressure from their senior counterparts. However that does not excuse them from what they are doing, and until this spiralling problem is acknowledged and dealt with at the highest level there will never be harmony between Royal Mail and it,s employees. This one major factor has again not been dealt with within the new agreement and this is why we should never vote for an agreement that tries to deny us the right to withdraw our labour.
