Worst deal and out of touch!!!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

For the members This agreement has never been about the money its about a fair days work without managers putting pressure on staff. Its about a trade union protecting its members and not taking the right of strike away. Its about sticking together and getting a deal that members need!!! This deal Will only lead into more lapsing putting more pressure on staff with performance checks where managers can bully and intimidate staff. SO CAN SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME WAT IS GROUND BREAKING ABOUT THIS DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They worked for 9 months plus to get you this deal. Please be grateful or they except the first offer next time!

Why should we be grateful. We pay them to represent us, which gives us the right to question whether they have represented us sufficiently well enough or not.

[lala]

Can somebody clarify something please:

The original pay offer had the £300 included in the % increase?

The current pay offer doesn't have the £200 included in the % increase?

If that's correct (and I am far from certain) then we aren't £100 worse off.

£100 consolidated into pay via it being 3% instead of 2.6%

thank you for the answer

[cloherty1976]

For the members This agreement has never been about the money its about a fair days work without managers putting pressure on staff. Its about a trade union protecting its members and not taking the right of strike away. Its about sticking together and getting a deal that members need!!! This deal Will only lead into more lapsing putting more pressure on staff with performance checks where managers can bully and intimidate staff. SO CAN SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME WAT IS GROUND BREAKING ABOUT THIS DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They worked for 9 months plus to get you this deal. Please be grateful or they except the first offer next time!

Why should we be grateful. We pay them to represent us, which gives us the right to question whether they have represented us sufficiently well enough or not.

I expect it to be a massive yes vote so the majority will be grateful.

[daveyeff]

For the members This agreement has never been about the money its about a fair days work without managers putting pressure on staff. Its about a trade union protecting its members and not taking the right of strike away. Its about sticking together and getting a deal that members need!!! This deal Will only lead into more lapsing putting more pressure on staff with performance checks where managers can bully and intimidate staff. SO CAN SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME WAT IS GROUND BREAKING ABOUT THIS DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's f**k all ground breaking about this deal - it's all RM would agree to and because the union wouldn't call a strike that's what we are stuck with - if only those who are opposed to the deal could also have a road show to point out the flaws and flimsy wording there'd be a chance of a NO vote but as it is the branch offices will advocate a yes and like sheep a large majority will follow that line. I am thankful that I won't be here to see it crash and burn and the CWU with it because people are going to wake up sooner or later to realise they ARE being taken for a ride.

just like they did when they advocated a 'yes vote' for the 2010 pile of shite. no doubt roadshows will be the order of the day if they get an inkling it could be a 'no vote'.

[tompa]

For the members This agreement has never been about the money its about a fair days work without managers putting pressure on staff. Its about a trade union protecting its members and not taking the right of strike away. Its about sticking together and getting a deal that members need!!! This deal Will only lead into more lapsing putting more pressure on staff with performance checks where managers can bully and intimidate staff. SO CAN SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME WAT IS GROUND BREAKING ABOUT THIS DEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's f**k all ground breaking about this deal - it's all RM would agree to and because the union wouldn't call a strike that's what we are stuck with - if only those who are opposed to the deal could also have a road show to point out the flaws and flimsy wording there'd be a chance of a NO vote but as it is the branch offices will advocate a yes and like sheep a large majority will follow that line. I am thankful that I won't be here to see it crash and burn and the CWU with it because people are going to wake up sooner or later to realise they ARE being taken for a ride.

totally agree with you on this mate the only ground BREAKING this DEAL does is my jaw hitting the ground. The executive should get in a delivery office for a few weeks and i bet they wouldnt push this DEAL through!!!

[tompa]

Can somebody clarify something please:

The original pay offer had the £300 included in the % increase?

The current pay offer doesn't have the £200 included in the % increase?

If that's correct (and I am far from certain) then we aren't £100 worse off.

£100 consolidated into pay via it being 3% instead of 2.6%

thank you for the answer

In July royal mail offered 300£, cwu negotiated from 300£ down to 200£ lumper, the over 100£ went into the ground BREAKING deal 0.4 pay rise that took 9 moths to negotiate.

[fishtank]

If that's correct (and I am far from certain) then we aren't £100 worse off.

I don't think anyone is saying we are £100 worse off,the inclusion of some of the £300 into basic pay was a smart move,I wish they had included it all.

The arguments against this agreement are not pay related although the movement from Royal Mail's original pay offer is modest.
The two main points against this deal are..

1) There has been no resolution to any of the delivery issues of which there are many including in no particular order..

Workplace Standards
Scheduled Start- Finish Times
Safeguarding the mail and the overrunning deliveries procedure.
Health and safety and fatigue on delivery.
Work Measurement/Standards and Revision Tools.
Delivery Revisions Process
Door to Door.
Delivery Methods.
Delivery Spans.
Attendance Patterns and Duty Structures.
Saturday Attendances.
Workload & Resourcing.
Absorption/lapsing/flexibility.
Bullying & harassment.

Now it's been said that most of these already are subject to agreements but it's the weakness of these agreements that has caused the majority of the delivery issues in the first place.

The only agreement that seems to have been addressed and firmed up immediately is the flexibility agreement where the CWU have bizarrely given ground and allowed the principle of no change to weekly contracted hours to be removed allowing for what no member really wanted to see...flexibility invoked on a Saturday.

2) The no strike agreement which despite the mealy mouthed attempts to disguise it is exactly what it is and the excuse that units can still take individual action is a dereliction in the most important principle of any trade union...unity is strength.

The mediation process at local level will make unofficial walkouts short lived and futile and branches will not authorise a rule 13 until the end of a very strong armed system designed to dissuade any kind of industrial action.

This deal is in its own way groundbreaking because it will change the industrial relations landscape for ever..just not to our benefit as ordinary members.

This is all about securing an ongoing role for national officers and full release reps within the company organisation,It is not about protections and industrial stability,If it was it wouldn't need a no strike deal.

[tompa]

Totally agree with fishtank post and this DEAL does not cover those issues

[cloherty1976]

If that's correct (and I am far from certain) then we aren't £100 worse off.

I don't think anyone is saying we are £100 worse off,the inclusion of some of the £300 into basic pay was a smart move,I wish they had included it all.

The arguments against this agreement are not pay related although the movement from Royal Mail's original pay offer is modest.
The two main points against this deal are..

1) There has been no resolution to any of the delivery issues of which there are many including in no particular order..

Workplace Standards
Scheduled Start- Finish Times
Safeguarding the mail and the overrunning deliveries procedure.
Health and safety and fatigue on delivery.
Work Measurement/Standards and Revision Tools.
Delivery Revisions Process
Door to Door.
Delivery Methods.
Delivery Spans.
Attendance Patterns and Duty Structures.
Saturday Attendances.
Workload & Resourcing.
Absorption/lapsing/flexibility.
Bullying & harassment.

Now it's been said that most of these already are subject to agreements but it's the weakness of these agreements that has caused the majority of the delivery issues in the first place.

The only agreement that seems to have been addressed and firmed up immediately is the flexibility agreement where the CWU have bizarrely given ground and allowed the principle of no change to weekly contracted hours to be removed allowing for what no member really wanted to see...flexibility invoked on a Saturday.

2) The no strike agreement which despite the mealy mouthed attempts to disguise it is exactly what it is and the excuse that units can still take individual action is a dereliction in the most important principle of any trade union...unity is strength.

The mediation process at local level will make unofficial walkouts short lived and futile and branches will not authorise a rule 13 until the end of a very strong armed system designed to dissuade any kind of industrial action.

This deal is in its own way groundbreaking because it will change the industrial relations landscape for ever..just not to our benefit as ordinary members.

This is all about securing an ongoing role for national officers and full release reps within the company organisation,It is not about protections and industrial stability,If it was it wouldn't need a no strike deal.

Fishtank don't you think delivery should be separated from all other functions as you seem to have endless problems which in my opinion will probably never be sorted. If other functions are happy should they be held back if they are reasonably happy?

[dvbuk55]

This is all about securing an ongoing role for national officers and full release reps within the company organisation,It is not about protections and industrial stability,If it was it wouldn't need a no strike deal.

I would personally finance a national road show for you ft as someone more than capable of spelling out exactly what this deal is. What we have is a disgusting travesty of what a union should be about and not the self serving bunch we are saddled with.

[dvbuk55]

Fishtank don't you think delivery should be separated from all other functions as you seem to have endless problems which in my opinion will probably never be sorted. If other functions are happy should they be held back if they are reasonably happy?

Absolutely agree with you cloherty - so we'll take the 90% of the union which we finance and you can have the 10% you finance - we'll elect our leaders and you can keep the numb nuts we have to put up with at the moment.

[cloherty1976]

Fishtank don't you think delivery should be separated from all other functions as you seem to have endless problems which in my opinion will probably never be sorted. If other functions are happy should they be held back if they are reasonably happy?

Absolutely agree with you cloherty - so we'll take the 90% of the union which we finance and you can have the 10% you finance - we'll elect our leaders and you can keep the numb nuts we have to put up with at the moment.

The numb nuts might do a better job. Just a thought!

[tompa]

Fishtank don't you think delivery should be separated from all other functions as you seem to have endless problems which in my opinion will probably never be sorted. If other functions are happy should they be held back if they are reasonably happy?

Absolutely agree with you cloherty - so we'll take the 90% of the union which we finance and you can have the 10% you finance - we'll elect our leaders and you can keep the numb nuts we have to put up with at the moment.

Your totally right dvbuk maybe its the way forward may be we need a totally new union with a totally new approach instead of this bunch of muppets treating its members like idiots telling us its a good deal!!!

[north london driver]

its no good talking about splitting our union this would only play into managements hands, all groups must stay as one
yes delivery is in a total mess but alot of this is down to the staff we have all cut corners in the past and now we are paying for it.what does worry me is the way delivery offices all over the country seem to except management changes and can not be bothered and are not intrested in there duties that also includes our union in the way agreements have been left open
for management to dictate there way of workings.when i read on this site what is going on in delivery offices out-side london it seems to me as if we are working for other companys.instead of splitting our members we need to stay as one
or management will have there biggest reward since royal mail was formed.
union headquaters should all take a long look at thereselves over this agreement and how it was reached it has been a shambles since day one,now everyone will be looking at the ballot result if everyone votes then we will have the true result.
i will be voting against this agreement not over the money or pensions but over the way offices in delivery are used and abused by management all over the country, until delivery offices are treated the same and workings are fair then these agreements are a waste of time.
the union must stay complete but we should have some new faces and ideas when negotiating in the future.

[dvbuk55]

its no good talking about splitting our union this would only play into managements hands but we should have some new faces and ideas when negotiating in the future.

The great problem is that the union itself isn't just splitting the membership but fragmenting it. The idea that each individual unit should now fight its own battles is ludicrous and the architects of that plan should resign their post. In fairness I don't think it was the leadership who thought up that little nugget IMHO this agreement has been drafted by Royal Mail for Royal Mail and the union ever eager to be involved in whatever capacity providing they can appear to be relevant just go with the flow. Full time jobs for the employees of the CWU and full time release for others, well its a small price to pay if its the membership that's paying it. We need new leadership but we know that isn't going to happen because the union bods feel their position is unassailable and in reality it is.

We need thousands withdrawing their financial support or the situation will continue ad infinitum.