Leaving the Union

[fishtank]

Now the case is are we better having resource to a court if they break the ir framework or a national agreement or are we better simply coming on here and moaning about a manager breaking it ?

If a manager in a unit is breaking a national agreement will the union run to court?,no of course it won't,the union would be bankrupt in a month so stop pretending it will,it will be down to whatever strength there is at local level to either fight it or lay down and die.

HQ has made itself redundant and it's probably no bad thing given recent performance,Once the members catch on though they might be wondering why we're still paying their wages.
The union has made a choice,It has given up it's right to call national industrial action and thrown the offices out to fend for themselves,That's fine,I'll deal with that as will my office but I'm not paying all that money for national officers to sit about all day so as a local office union now we will reconsider where our priorities lie.

[cloherty1976]

When it is simple breach the union can give the employer up to 4 weeks to reconsider and then we can take them to court and get an injunction which stops the Royal Mail from doing what they were as they would be in breach of court if they continued. Now thats a little bit different from now when if they breach an agreement we would ask for a meeting.

So really we should just leave the union and employ Simpson Millar on a retainer?
I'm sure it would be a great deal less than £28 million per annum.
What are the national officers going to do between legal cases?
Are we a union or a law firm?

Fish for one it is not simpson and miller , but more importantly the legally binding agreement is a commitment between the CWU and Royal Mail a contract which individuals cannot claim on. Now the case is are we better having resource to a court if they break the ir framework or a national agreement or are we better simply coming on here and moaning about a manager breaking it ?

. If I am right the union recommends members using Simpson millar but use smaller firms to represent themselves

[Danelectro]

it will be down to whatever strength there is at local level to either fight it or lay down and die.
.

this is what Ive not quite got clear yet-is it still possible for an office rep to ballot the members on strike action if the IR and mediation is exhausted? or is the only option unofficial walkouts/wildcats

[Martin Walsh]

Now the case is are we better having resource to a court if they break the ir framework or a national agreement or are we better simply coming on here and moaning about a manager breaking it ?

If a manager in a unit is breaking a national agreement will the union run to court?,no of course it won't,the union would be bankrupt in a month so stop pretending it will,it will be down to whatever strength there is at local level to either fight it or lay down and die.

HQ has made itself redundant and it's probably no bad thing given recent performance,Once the members catch on though they might be wondering why we're still paying their wages.
The union has made a choice,It has given up it's right to call national industrial action and thrown the offices out to fend for themselves,That's fine,I'll deal with that as will my office but I'm not paying all that money for national officers to sit about all day so as a local office union now we will reconsider where our priorities lie.

The question is Fish is that the union will not have to run to court every time as once we have won a couple Royal Mail will not challenge again. It does not cost that much to get an injection , the full hearing it does but often that is some time afterwards.

There is little point in the CWU having a legally binding contract with Royal Mail if they don't use it when Royal Mail breach it. Lets be clear how many times have people on this board me including saying Royal Mail have broken another agreement and what are we going to do about it and we then get into negotiations. Well now we have something with a bit more teeth to use. Now I believe that Royal Mail had just as much trouble getting the board to agree to the legal protections as they believe Moya was giving too much away and they even had a QC arguing that it changed the role of the board on certain things.

It is not time we gave legal binding agreements a chance ? What have we got to lose ?

[Martin Walsh]

it will be down to whatever strength there is at local level to either fight it or lay down and die.
.

this is what Ive not quite got clear yet-is it still possible for an office rep to ballot the members on strike action if the IR and mediation is exhausted? or is the only option unofficial walkouts/wildcats

Yes and better than that you can ballot before the mediation starts and if you cannot resolve it via mediation you can activate the strike action.

[Martin Walsh]

cloherty we recommend the use of simpson millar for mainly personal injury claims. We use Patterson Brewer and Thompsons for employment law stuff.

[fishtank]

it will be down to whatever strength there is at local level to either fight it or lay down and die.
.

this is what Ive not quite got clear yet-is it still possible for an office rep to ballot the members on strike action if the IR and mediation is exhausted? or is the only option unofficial walkouts/wildcats

Yes but there is a legally binding requirement to exhaust both the IR Framework and the mediation process and although the mediation process is non-binding ...the expectation is that both parties will use the mediator’s recommendations to resolve their differences.So if you ignore mediation what support will you get from branch or HQ for a rule 13?

[Danelectro]

it will be down to whatever strength there is at local level to either fight it or lay down and die.
.

this is what Ive not quite got clear yet-is it still'possible for an office rep to ballot the members on strike action if the IR and mediation is exhausted? or is the only option unofficial walkouts/wildcats

Yes but there is a legally binding requirement to exhaust both the IR Framework and the mediation process and although the mediation process is non-binding ...the expectation is that both parties will use the mediator’s recommendations to resolve their differences.So if you ignore mediation what support will you get from branch or HQ for a rule 13?

Aye you would have to be one hell of a tight knit office to get out the other side without a few casualties,totally not ideal where workloads/B&H is concerned but at least I know that its still 'possible' to ballot locally.

[cloherty1976]

cloherty we recommend the use of simpson millar for mainly personal injury claims. We use Patterson Brewer and Thompsons for employment law stuff.

I thought he had left Thompsons years ago.

[dvbuk55]

The question is Fish is that the union will not have to run to court every time as once we have won a couple Royal Mail will not challenge again. It does not cost that much to get an injection , the full hearing it does but often that is some time afterwards.?

And once you have lost a couple? Lets face it, the union of late have not been forthcoming in biting the bullet more kissing the butt.