The great divide....

[dav1524]

no offence but folks in the mail centers have got it so easy compared to us in delivery! The fact that an injured postie or a postie with bad arthritis get offered the chance to work in mail centers says it all really! i worked in a mail center once over an xmas & the folks in there had a saying: lean on it! What that meant was find something to lean on and just have a rest! Then there was somebody who told me to get a york & keep pushing it round if a manager looks at you then just stop when hes gone and lean on it & have a chin wag again! It opened my eyes to say the least! My opinion is we should be on different pay rates & should be balloted separate in this deal as mail center workers will not be affected by large parts of the deal like delivery will be. The performance pressure we are under in delivery is like a different world to mail-centers! Its like we work for totally different companies but are then expected to vote on the same deal?

I did delivery for 10 years and thought they were ok,but i don,t think i would be able to do 10 years in a mail centre stuck inside all day.

[chrisj]

The performance pressure we are under in delivery is like a different world to mail-centers! Its like we work for totally different companies but are then expected to vote on the same deal?

I could not agree more. Completely different discipline... In any other business we will be treated absolutely differently and paid differently as well. The fact that we deal with customers, there is just some much going on e.g dealing with specials and managing your own workload, working to deadlines, add driving and generally having a very responsible job in a local community places us well ahead of some of the other sectors of the business bar the skilled or specialist jobs.

No disrespect to MC staff but I can understand why they are extremely happy with the agreement but they should temper their joy a little bit because all we in delivery have got so far is just a little bit more money and a legal protection that can only be used effectively by powerful units.

I do not even worry about T&C protection because I feel that RM will find that if they try to mess with our T&C in delivery, the system will have been crippled anyway because we are the largest in the group.I am not ungrateful for more protection but I have always felt that delivery is uniquely safer than other units.

They have yet to invent Robots to deliver to houses and putting 80K posites on minimum wage will not even be allowed by the government regardless of whether they are a private company or not - that will simply mess up the whole economy and the govt has to pay more to boost wages to minimum living wages.

[halfull]

no offence but folks in the mail centers have got it so easy compared to us in delivery! The fact that an injured postie or a postie with bad arthritis get offered the chance to work in mail centers says it all really! i worked in a mail center once over an xmas & the folks in there had a saying: lean on it! What that meant was find something to lean on and just have a rest! Then there was somebody who told me to get a york & keep pushing it round if a manager looks at you then just stop when hes gone and lean on it & have a chin wag again! It opened my eyes to say the least! My opinion is we should be on different pay rates & should be balloted separate in this deal as mail center workers will not be affected by large parts of the deal like delivery will be. The performance pressure we are under in delivery is like a different world to mail-centers! Its like we work for totally different companies but are then expected to vote on the same deal?

I did delivery for 10 years and thought they were ok,but i don,t think i would be able to do 10 years in a mail centre stuck inside all day.

10 years ago delivery was a world away from what it is today my friend! go to bed!

[dav1524]

no offence but folks in the mail centers have got it so easy compared to us in delivery! The fact that an injured postie or a postie with bad arthritis get offered the chance to work in mail centers says it all really! i worked in a mail center once over an xmas & the folks in there had a saying: lean on it! What that meant was find something to lean on and just have a rest! Then there was somebody who told me to get a york & keep pushing it round if a manager looks at you then just stop when hes gone and lean on it & have a chin wag again! It opened my eyes to say the least! My opinion is we should be on different pay rates & should be balloted separate in this deal as mail center workers will not be affected by large parts of the deal like delivery will be. The performance pressure we are under in delivery is like a different world to mail-centers! Its like we work for totally different companies but are then expected to vote on the same deal?

I did delivery for 10 years and thought they were ok,but i don,t think i would be able to do 10 years in a mail centre stuck inside all day.

10 years ago delivery was a world away from what it is today my friend! go to bed!

Too early for my bedtime normally go about 1am,i dont start till 12.30pm

[wandle]

rangtwice, if working in a Mail Centre is such a cushy job, and bullying and harrassment are rife in DO's, why aren't delivery guys all applying in huge numbers, for transfers to Mail Centres ??

Because working in an MC, you are under constant threat of your place of work being closed, and being made redundant or forced to travel great distances to your new place of work, that's why !!!

[teesdale]

How has this agreement transformed into a rant about mail centres? I will be working until 8.00pm on Christmas Eve at Bristol Mail Centre. If it was up to the local managers we wouldn't be allowed Christmas off at all, it would be just another working day. I shall be voting no. Not enough has been achieved in negotiations. Pay is good, but pension and no strike thing is shite.

[chrisj]

rangtwice, if working in a Mail Centre is such a cushy job, and bullying and harrassment are rife in DO's, why aren't delivery guys all applying in huge numbers, for transfers to Mail Centres ??

Because working in an MC, you are under constant threat of your place of work being closed, and being made redundant or forced to travel great distances to your new place of work, that's why !!!

This is probably the second time this sort of information has been posted... Why? I does not make sense!

You cannot get a job in a Mail Centre for love and money - period! I am certain a good number will like to retire to the mail Centre if the opportunity is there. I am not close to retirement age and I will jump at the chance to go and work in a Mail Centre - tomorrow. In fact the threat of closure and the possibility of being made redundant will actually be an added attraction for me - I am serious!

I am not sure if wandle works in a mail centre but they are not taking new staff because most of them are either overstaffed or they work to demands and the rest is covered by agency staff. The travel will not be a problem in the slightest - even 20 km or more.

If I am wrong, then please correct me and I will put my transfer in tomorrow - and will look forward to a leisurely 3 or 5 years and then take my shares and see you later... Thanks

[baldrick]

I never worked in Deliveries but knew some delivery posties. A few years back they would never have wanted to work in a mc. They had job and finish, and were usually home early. If they wanted ot they got a good deal taking out another round, or even two. I knew delivery posties who were doubling their basic wage with ot.
In the mcs there were some jobs where you could finish early, but these were jobs that you only got with many years of seniority. There was ot available, but it was mainly on sorting and you had to work every minute of it. You had managers watching your every move.
Now things are worse in both deliveries and mcs. That's why I took VR. But it's the same everywhere. I'm doing an Xmas temp job where the pay is only a bit more than minimum wage, and you don't get paid for breaks. I could stay on after Xmas if I wanted to, but fortunately I don't need to.
There's no point in blaming others. It is our fault for allowing the Government and employers to do this to us.

[ratchet]

I would agree with that but we have to play the hand that is dealt.

Perhaps a new Union will arise from the ashes of the CWU

Union of National Communication Loyal Employees
U.N.C.L.E.

Fixed that for you.

The reps would be known as The man from Uncle

[fishtank]

To argue that mailcentres have borne the brunt of the cuts in staffing is a bit misleading.
More than 4% has been cut directly from delivery hours only in the last two years.
To put that in perspective my office burns around 6000 hrs a week so that's 240 hrs or 6 full-time jobs gone from my D.O. alone.
These jobs do not get to transfer or take VR,they are simply lapsed out of delivery entirely in the name of efficiency.

The bulk of the hours taken out of the business over the last 10 years have been in delivery,not with a fanfare but quietly through stealth at no cost to the business and the workload left behind has been picked up by the delivery members left behind.

[Judgee]

Delivery staff should be given the option to move into MCs when they reach a certain age, 55-60 maybe?

I have worked in a MC many years ago and to be fair it was boring as hell. But physically it would be a good option for delivery staff who's bodies have finally given up the ghost through years of abuse pounding the streets! It would be like a semi-retirement and should be offered automatically to those who want or need it when they start getting on a bit!

Younger guys are far more suited to the physical abuse that todays rounds can inflict on the body and there's plenty of them that still think it's a cushy job so let them do it.

[chrisj]

It does not usually start as a rant on Mail Centres but when some MC staff comes long and tell people to get a grip and lauds everything that the Union is doing, that is when it becomes an issue of you folks have all that you might have ever wished for and us - our issues are to be dealt with separately... kicked into the long grass and divulged to local reps and so on.

It is simply annoying for any MC staff to assume that it is that easy to enter into disagreement in delivery because there are so many angles that management can come at staff in delivery... And it is easy to divide and conquer in a way that might not work in MC.

Above all, Mail Centre are large places and it should be easier to mobilise people whenever there is a dispute.

At the end of the day, I will not expect a Mail Centre staff to vote against this deal - there is simply no reason to do so. On the other hand, the delivery staff that voted for a ballot based on the Union dealing with issues that relate to them will not feel so enthusiastic about the deal. I have yet to read anything directly from a Mail Centre staff since the deal was reached that is in anyway sympathetic to the delivery side... ???

Having said the above, it will still be hard for delivery staff to vote NO in large numbers because the deal is virtually done and some of the money will have been paid. Also there is enough clauses in the agreement to blackmail people from a resultant NO vote... Many also completely ignorant of what has been achieved and they have not even try to compared stated goals with outputs from the deal.

I still cannot get my head round why anyone think the actual monetary deal is ground breaking and that it is very much different to what RM willingly offered before negotiations. I know there is probably more to the pay deal than the money in numbers - I guess RM were looking to tie a few things to the first pay offer... But still, 8.6% + £300 in first year and 9.06 + £200 is not much different to the basic pay (before OT). Years 2&3 remained the same. Anyone care to work out the difference in pounds and pennies?

[cloherty1976]

I still cannot get my head round why anyone think the actual monetary deal is ground breaking and that it is very much different to what RM willingly offered before negotiations. I know there is probably more to the pay deal than the money in numbers - I guess RM were looking to tie a few things to the first pay offer... But still, 8.6% + £300 in first year and 9.06 + £200 is not much different to the basic pay (before OT). Years 2&3 remained the same. Anyone care to work out the difference in pounds and pennies?

I can't understand why it took so long when to me it's near enough the same just twisted about a bit..I suppose it's worth an extra £100 a year less deductions

[Martin Walsh]

chris and Cloherty if you look at Royal Mail"s pay offer they put in the courier in July which the union rejected it was worth in year 1 of 2.6% , in year 2 of 3% and year 3 of 2.8%. This totalled 8.4% but the compound figure is 8.6%.

We now have a in year 1 , 3% and year 2 , 3% and year 3 of 2.8%. Total of 8.8 but with a compound figure of 9.6 %.

The difference for is we have fronted ended the pay rises and therefore our members have more money up front which obviously helps with the pay rises in years 2 and 3.

For a delivery post person on a national rate the deal means over 3 years their pay including the supplement will move from £393.73 to £429.40 per week a total pay rise of £35.67 per week. It would move the annual wage for an OPG in deliveries of £22328. Not bad when you look back at 1994 when a postman's wage was just under £10000 per year.

For your grade an LGV driver from network on the national rate your pay will go from £473.26 to £516.13 per week a total increase of £42.87 per week.

[cloherty1976]

chris and Cloherty if you look at Royal Mail"s pay offer they put in the courier in July which the union rejected it was worth in year 1 of 2.6% , in year 2 of 3% and year 3 of 2.8%. This totalled 8.4% but the compound figure is 8.6%.

We now have a in year 1 , 3% and year 2 , 3% and year 3 of 2.8%. Total of 8.8 but with a compound figure of 9.6 %.

The difference for is we have fronted ended the pay rises and therefore our members have more money up front which obviously helps with the pay rises in years 2 and 3.

For a delivery post person on a national rate the deal means over 3 years their pay including the supplement will move from £393.73 to £429.40 per week a total pay rise of £35.67 per week. It would move the annual wage for an OPG in deliveries of £22328. Not bad when you look back at 1994 when a postman's wage was just under £10000 per year.

For your grade an LGV driver from network on the national rate your pay will go from £473.26 to £516.13 per week a total increase of £42.87 per week.

I don't know we're you get your figures from but I am already on more than that so that would be a pay cut to me as basic