Understanding the magnitude of this agreement

[halfull]

In regards to members leaving - as a branch we are now quite fully subscribed,more so recently from FTC's using the MTFS agreement,(now legally bound).

Halful - I am presuming that your lack of disagreements have mean that the employer have rolled you over,(no disrespect). They no that the "banging the desk" and the "all out" attitude ain't nearly enough. Times have changed in which ,(as reps) we have to know our stuff,MTFS, Stoke Agreement, etc.

I do not expect anyone to run an office via remote control,it just is not feasable. If you decide to vote no because you cannot represent people in your office,it is a poor reason. If you decide to vote no because the national officers have ignored delivery offices then have a look at the agreement first. Then ask the questions and attend the national briefing next week. If it's not for you,and after an educated decision ,fine.

what? i have registered plenty of disagreements with my dom,i just thought you were on about some other disagreement, you are talking crap, you have no clue what kind of rep i am, you are just attacking me on here. I know my stuff alright & i know many parts of this deal stink for delivery offices! I just hope the vote will be in favour of NO!

[General Mannerheim]

How many of these 60 offices are going to be ones with actual bad bullying or harassment?
Are these joint groups just going to show up or will they give them a fortnights warning like when the auditors arrive?
What will happen is these knobjockeys will turn up at the best performing offices..you know the ones where you could eat your dinner off the shithouse floor with smiling Courier type turds who are heavily into World Class Mail flow charts and shoe charts.

[drb]

Halful I do apologise if you are offended. However your DOM is hiding your disagreements because it is clear he does not know the process. It is now clear you do. It is also clear you do care about your members. Bypass him? Keep pushing.

In regards to grievances..I myself have filed many an ET funded by the CWU.

Again,many apologies if I offended you as you have so far stated that that you are voting no based on bullying only in deliveries.Important,yes, but so is meaningful employment too. We have to find a way to those twp factors working hand in hand. My anger is towards the employer ,and for that reason alone I know where my passion for fighting for our members is aimed at.

[fishtank]

so if we are to sort out all problems on our own now what exactly will the top brass be doing in the cwu?

If they have any sense checking the job ads.
I can't really see much need for them now,we have our protections and we have to fight our own battles,Royal Mail will basically impose a pay settlement in 2016 because well,what are we going to do about it?...ballot the members on whether they want to lose their protections for a better deal?
The only upside is Royal Mail have stated in their corporate responsibility aims for next year that they will target the poorest performing areas for "improvement" and I've seen the figures and I know where that is so...good luck with that local union number 0001.

[deshulme]

I'm now a Share holder... I want Royal Mail to do well...the better the more the Share Price goes up. I think in years to come this will go down as a historic moment when managers from other companies will use it as a blue print. Let's not get rid of your best workers but encourage the work force for a Agenda for Growth. Pay your Employee's Peanut's and you end up with Monkey's.

[Ahebban]

No, under the new agreement you have to go through the IR framework whilst continuing to work, else you'll likely be suspended. The new agreement has measures to prevent wildcat action so you're not going to walk when a colleague is suspended for something you all disagree with.

It is possible for unofficial/wildcat action to be taken, however, every means possible under the IR Framework, and the varying mediation levels will be invoked, to 'fast-track' the issue/grievance to resolution.

Whilst I expect this may be worst-case scenario, it is not difficult to foresee difficulties arising from a return to work if the 'issue/grievance' is still in place? I wonder if we not in danger of creating further mis-trust rather than eradicating it through this process?

[monkey76]

Drb your right stop licking his a**se for him. Quotes like who has the balls to strike and who even knows they can? Thats his job to let them people know and his job to give people the balls thats what reps do. Scared to put disagreements in for fear of revenge????? Thats what the disagreement process is for do your f***ing job and prove your managers a bully if yous had of in the first place we would of had a paper trail of B&H for the nationals to argue with but your scared to put the paper in. Thats your fault not the negotiators. Total cop out. I'll not do whats expected of me then blame headquarters for my failings. Sorry it doesnt work like that. If you dont have the balls to disagree then you shouldnt be representing people.

[Himaggen]

So dingo, are you saying that the CWU will take Royal Mail to court on every single breach of the legally binding terms. Yes or No
Can you tell us what a win in court will actually win us? Money, Stamps, a Blue Peter Badge...
How long it will take to raise and complete one of those court cases? By the time it was over it would be impractical or impossible to fix the damage.

What you are effectively saying is that Royal Mail and CWU will base all of their future decisions by balancing the cost of their actions against their perceived win/lose court costs. Now if you play poker with a bully who has more money than you, it is inevitable that you will need fold a lot of hands in your attempts to stay in the game and the majority of those hands will be folded by the newly appointed Mediators.
It will also be inevitable that the operating costs of the Union, and therefore our dues will rise greatly.

[drb]

@Himaggen - I myself have settled and won many all ET cases in an employment tribunal based on grievances for our members.It's not hard and was funded by the CWU. We did not require others holding our coats,(so to speak). Food for thought?.....

@Monkey 76 - I was being polite! (LOL!)

[Himaggen]

@Himaggen - I myself have settled and won many all ET cases in an employment tribunal based on grievances for our members.

How many ET cases actually result in the wronged party getting their job back as before?
...Food for thought!

[drb]

@ Himaggen - It was not for dismissals: Just plain mismanagement: Overtime repaid and a huge legal bill for the employer.

In terms of dismissals - Never lost an appeal!

Food for thought?

[hantsman]

@ Himaggen - It was not for dismissals: Just plain mismanagement: Overtime repaid and a huge legal bill for the employer.

In terms of dismissals - Never lost an appeal!

Food for thought?

Do you want to give use the many ET case numbers then?

[monkey76]

drb what you said to him was right. The disagreement process is there for everyone to use. If a manager is bullying he is open to grievence so follow that. If he/she even (sorry) is in breach of the framework then go to disagreement. I understand there are many offices that dont even have reps and see how it would be hard to stand up to it in that respect but if an office has a rep then theres no reason that the framework should not be followed. Members in an office with a rep should never be unaware of there options regarding the framework and grievence and so on, thats a disgrace at the very least they should know what procedures are available to them should they feel aggrieved and so on. It's a reps duty to provide that information at the very least. As for fear of reprisal for utilizing your right to go to disagreement well thats ridiculous thats wrong the lack of it has contributed to a lot of the difficulties in the talks i'm led to believe. Then its everyone elses fault but the unit reps now the deal is public. Sorry no thats a kop out we all have the responsibility as reps to follow the framework if we think it justifies not ignore a situation because we think we might get picked on what the hell would you want to be a rep for if your not prepared to stand up against wrong doing and not prepared to use the procedures that are available to stand up to it.

[stodgy88]

i,ve worked in deliverys for 28 years,and see people daily working over their time ,rather than the alternative of been accused of not working to standard,the favourite been so-and so,s ready who started 40 mins before their time.I have confronted the early starters to no avail ,and dont really want to be falling out with colleagues as well as management,im lucky in respect i can usually finish my workload in the time allocated,but others are put under intense pressure to do so,and although they get paid for any extra time worked ,are put under pressure to complete ,or targeted by managers. Has regards getting the rep involved ,he juggles that job with the role as a line manager-enough said.

[Dee Plish]

Now what most of you do not know is that alongside the 36 page national agreement and 8 page agreement on pensions is a 23 page legal contract.

Indeed Dingo, I didn't know this. Where can this 23 page legal contract be read by those encouraged to vote in favour of this new deal? I for one would like to see it prior to voting. If we can't get to see it you can bet your life DOM's etc will be using the "but it's in the legal contract" bluff at local level to get away with what they shouldn't be allowed to.