An end to National Industrial Action?

[dvbuk55]

Christ nearly started a Dylan song. :

Maybe we should write a new song for Dylan, "The Members Demise", "The CWU Lament", "You will get me despite the old Union"

[britwrit]

It's alright Ma, I'm only bleeding.

[Bernardson]

In the past we had a strong union as time as gone by we have a membership which is far more self centred and we need to be more savvy in our dealings.
If called upon I will be on the street in unity but remember times have changed. Christ nearly started a Dylan song. : [/quote]


Thatcher's Children

[dazzlin72]

The union are now completely finished, & they've had a hand in their own demise. Only thing to do now is stop paying union subs until Billy Hayes, Dave Ward, & the rest of the PEC executive are all ousted, & start a new.

[dvbuk55]

The union are now completely finished, & they've had a hand in their own demise. Only thing to do now is stop paying union subs until Billy Hayes, Dave Ward, & the rest of the PEC executive are all ousted, & start a new.

The previous poster once again lays the blame at the memberships feet but clearly thatcher's children are firmly ensconced in the driving seat at 150 The Broadway. The raison d'etre for the purpose of the union has long been forgotten and the continuation of the gravy train at our expense is all that matters to them. That has bred a whole host of gravy trains across the country with people who are supposed to support unit reps standing idly by in their little back slapping enclaves. It would appear that nothing is to stand in the way of the nice little jolly of continuing to chatter for no apparent reason just to boost their own ego. I would imagine if we were to be completing their application for a passport we would have to put "professional waffler" as an occupation . They are complete disgrace.

[Lincox]

Yes DVB it appears that their main strategy is to form a unity with management to help install changes that the membership do not necessarily want or need. Is this to strengthen their own personal situations. It is clear that they are not listening to the membership, the people who pay their wages. This all encompassing agreement was supposed to provide solutions to the problems that the members have been facing since BT2010 and previous, and the reason why many have had to resort to unofficial walk outs. They have certainly been given the time to do this, but what do we get, more discussions to take place in the new year, so we are expected to vote on an agreement that has not even begun to sort out the problems in delivery. I would suggest that they are sent back to the drawing board and told not to reappear until ALL of the issues have a conclusion that can be balloted on.

[dvbuk55]

Yes DVB it appears that their main strategy is to form a unity with management to help install changes that the membership do not necessarily want or need. Is this to strengthen their own personal situations. It is clear that they are not listening to the membership, the people who pay their wages. This all encompassing agreement was supposed to provide solutions to the problems that the members have been facing since BT2010 and previous, and the reason why many have had to resort to unofficial walk outs. They have certainly been given the time to do this, but what do we get, more discussions to take place in the new year, so we are expected to vote on an agreement that has not even begun to sort out the problems in delivery. I would suggest that they are sent back to the drawing board and told not to reappear until ALL of the issues have a conclusion that can be balloted on.

Is that not what happened with BT2010, the Interim Agreement, the all seeing, all dancing deal of the century negotiated in the same way by the same people to the same end - as you say entrench themselves in the Royal Mail culture club - I mean do they realise who funds their not inconsiderable lifestyle?

[NumptyBumpty]

What would actually cause a national strike? They don't happen very often and it's usually to do with pay negotiations. Given the protection we have for the next few years, is a national strike likely? If a national strike was necessary, we could still have one but we might lose some protection. I'm not overly concerned about that clause as it is only for the life of the deal.

[dvbuk55]

What would actually cause a national strike? They don't happen very often and it's usually to do with pay negotiations. Given the protection we have for the next few years, is a national strike likely? If a national strike was necessary, we could still have one but we might lose some protection. I'm not overly concerned about that clause as it is only for the life of the deal.

And the other clauses that have the same effect but are beyond the control of CWU? Don't forget that these are in the agreement and cannot be subject to any legal action because they have been signed up to.

[fishtank]

If a national strike was necessary, we could still have one but we might lose some protection. I'm not overly concerned about that clause as it is only for the life of the deal.

There are a couple of flaws in that analysis.
We can't have a strike because no member in their right mind would risk voting for national industrial action if it meant risking their terms and conditions therefore no national officer will ever propose enacting a national ballot.

It is not for the lifetime of any deal,the clause will stay in place as long as the protections stay in place and since the idea is the protections stay in place in perpetuity with regular review dates starting in 2019 the clause will always be there.

In the event of national industrial action we don't lose some protections,we lose all of them.

Now what do we do if we get to 2016 and the business implements a pay freeze just like 2009?

[fishtank]

And one more thing..
Bear in mind the same level of protections do not apply to HR,Finance and Information Technology.
Their protection only lasts to 2017 for some reason.
Perhaps they are the first target?

4.2 The Employer confirms there are no plans to outsource the Human Resources, Finance and Information Technology functions, but reserves the right, in the course of normal business planning, to consider options for these functions and may initiate a review at any time after January 2017.

[Pat Ostman]

But why would Royal Mail risk inflaming a long future strike by further reducing working conditions. Surely to entice the workers back RM would have to give back something to the CWU.

Oh, yeah, I get it.

[Dee Plish]

The agreement downloadable from the CWU site mentions "Appendix A: Legally binding contract between The Employer and CWU." , yet this is not contained within the download. Before deciding to vote yes or no surely it is vital that we can see what the legal stuff is and how (or if!) it can used to our advantage. The negotiators agreement is decent in terms of pay, but the 'lose a lot if you go on strike' element and lack of legal protections re: MTSF (decent redundancy payouts etc) are poor to say the least. If the legally binding contract is equally as weak on protecting T's & C's and our ability to fight our corner against the managerial extremism rife in Royal Mail, then it has to be a no vote. Until we can see it though, how do we know?

Maybe a NO vote followed by national industrial action without the punitive clauses of this agreement could be one future scenario?

[pcb]

It appears that some believe we are still a public service unfortunately the membership nor the general public never really got on board with mass demonstrations in the recent campaign. It appeared that it was too much trouble to attend on their days off. Standing in a high street collecting signatures, attending local MP offices just too much trouble.
When we went on strike previously we had the perception that the public was with us and in most cases they were. now we are privatised that all changes things.
We can alwaysgo on strike nothing stopping us irrelevant whether we are public or private we put at risk our terms and conditions every time we were on the street. However the public had the knack of making the local MPs take notice.
This agreement is just that an agreement, what did you expect?

Have we seen mass redundancies?
Have we seen 2 tier workforce?
Have we seen pay reductions?

Do you expect the company to NOT use the tools available to PUNISH us!
How on earth do you think the system works?
We go on strike and they don't take the chance to change our TCs. Come on think it through.
Still haven't seen anything on this forum of a strategy which moves us forward when/if we go on strike.
Just like to see the comprehensive plan you have, so please share it.
Just a few pointers -

Have you got enough of the membership behind you because it's all about numbers?
Have you got a good bank balance because we will be out for weeks not days!
Have you got a plan to get the RM back to the negotiating table?
Have you got a comprehensive strategy going forward which allows the business to borrow from the financial markets
Have you got a plan on STOPPING OUR MEMBERS FROM GOING IN EARLY, USING THEIR CARS AND NOT TAKING THEIR BREAKS.
Have you got a plan on how to stop bullying local managers from penalising members?
Have you got a financial plan which allows those who obviously think the grass is greener on the other side the chance to leave under VR?

[dvbuk55]

Sorry, my bad, I didn't realise it was all the memberships fault, no, no I was thinking it was the shower of idle good for nothings we pay to strategize and negotiate for us - because we actually work for a living and finance the CWU to do those thing for us.