A few on here need a reality check

[bustedflush]

Have any of you established posties stopped to consider that one big reason myself and others come in early (and usually finish early) which you are critical of because it helps the DOMs claim everything's all rosy in the garden IS BECAUSE WE ARE ON 6-MONTH RENEWABLE CONTRACTS?? I have a family to feed and from one who has come from outside the public sector (ironic as now we are the private sector...) I can say the delivery job does provide a living wage and yes, the CWU over the years has ensured this.
I experienced a short spell of unemployment before joining and my Lord was it depressing. To have a decent wage (compared to the crap MW offers that are around for similar manual positions) was a great relief to me, and despite the stress I often feel in the office I enjoy being out on delivery. The thing is, during my first few months I was bitten and advised by a manager NOT to report it as it "has to be logged and you could go down as 'accident-prone' as a result which may affect your chances of another 6-months work." Last week me and a partner had to delivery literally tens of kilos of thick households left from the week before that various posties had ignored when put on the job that previous week for one day at a time only - these were thrown off (4 days worth) all at once by a 'light duties' injured person, and as a reward for delivering them when they weren't ours, did they tell the light-duties person to throw the rest of ours off in exchange for us delivering them?? DID THEY ****!!!
OK, you think this is a digression from the thread, but it's not. My point is, has any deal/negotiation been reached over the use of these 6-month deals? They are a clear invitation for us to be blackmailed and shat upon by being given crap treatment they wouldn't dare give to established posties. My rep did say the buggers were even considering bringing in ZERO HOUR deals, but he said the CWU would never agree, so I hope this was the case. 6-months is bad enough. I know guys who've done 3-years on 6-month deals, which is pointless as after 2 years you have the same redundancy and tribunal rights as someone who's done 2 years on a permanent deal. Obviously after 4 years you have to be permanent by law anyway. My rep has stated that he hoped to get the good 6-monthers permanent contracts to ease their worries. Any ideas??

[chrisj]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... at#p579927" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Blast from a recent past: I thought we were challenging RM on all fronts

mportant Information Covering :

• PRIVATISATION & EMPLOYEE SHARES
• PAY
• WORKPLACE ISSUES
• THE BOYCOTT OF COMPETITORS’ MAIL
• PENSIONS
• THE PROSPECT OF A NATIONAL
INDUSTRIAL ACTION BALLOT

Dear Colleague,
Your recent vote in the consultative ballot is being acted upon and the CWU
will fight to protect your interests and the future of UK Postal Services.
There is a lot going on and this pamphlet covers the issues that will determine
your future.

Privatisation and Employee Shares – 96% of you opposed privatisation; we explain
what the Government did and didn’t say in their recent announcement and why
everything is still to play for.

Pay – 99% of you supported our pay policy; we explain the real Royal Mail pay offer
and why it was rejected.

Workplace Issues – 92% of you supported the policy of non-co-operation; we explain
why and how this must now be enforced consistently in every local unit and every
RM function.

The Boycott – 92% of you supported the boycott policy; we explain what really
happened in court and why the boycott is still firmly on our agenda.

Pensions – The current Royal Mail Group consultation is a sham. We are challenging
the legality and legitimacy of these proposals in light of the linkage to the original
State Aid Case and the promises previously made. It is important that you now register
your discontent and we ask that you fill in and send the enclosed postcard to the
company. We will also be organising workplace petitions to be sent to the trustees.
For DC Scheme Members (joiners from 2008) we are seeking improvements to your
pensions as part of our ongoing negotiations.

Next Steps
The company, Government and Regulator fear the role CWU will play in the coming
weeks and months. The collective strength you have already shown in the consultative
ballot is having an impact. It forced the company to make their first offer on pay, it made
the Government shift their position on Employee Shares and made the Regulator fi nally
acknowledge the threat posed by end-to-end competition.


In the coming weeks the union will prioritise negotiations on the crucial issues covered
in this pamphlet – but we cannot wait forever. If we do not reach an agreement on all
outstanding matters then we will hold a national industrial action ballot in September
at the latest. This ballot will also include an element that gives us the legal authority
to carry out the boycott of competitors’ mail. CWU Representatives from across the
country will meet on 31st July and 1st August to endorse these policies.

The CWU strategy hereon in will cover all eventualities:

• It remains entirely possible to stop the sale. Alongside the “Save our RM” Coalition,
the CWU will intensify the fi ght against privatisation in the coming weeks and months.

• The Government are showing signs of weakness by now openly talking about not
selling the whole of the company. If a sale were to take place it can be minimised to
the extent that a new Government in 2015 could still implement a change in policy.

• The CWU will continue to argue for a better alternative, a not for dividend company
where profit can only be reinvested back into the service and the workforce.

• Above all, whatever happens, we are determined to secure an agreement that
will go further than any in trade union history in protecting your interests for the
long-term foreseeable future. This agreement must be legally binding, enforceable
and underwritten by Government. It must ensure RM will never operate like its
private competitors such as TNT.

Unlike the vested interests driving privatisation, CWU is here for the long haul.
With your support we will shape a positive future.

Everything really is still to play for.
Yours sincerely,
Dave Ward Billy Hayes
Deputy General Secretary (Postal) General Secretary

PRIVATISATION

There are still major hurdles for the Government and the company to overcome before
any sell off can take place. Both Government and city investors remain nervous of market
conditions and the role CWU will play in the coming weeks and months.

People are becoming aware! There is growing public and political opposition to the sale and
the process for a privatisation on this scale is complex and nowhere near complete. This is
why the Government announcement could not confirm a definitive timetable or even how
much may be sold.

Privatising a company like Royal Mail, with nearly 400 years of heritage, tradition and public
service, is fundamentally wrong and unnecessary. The Government and Royal Mail Board are
deliberately framing this debate as though the company is about to fall off the edge of a cliff and can only be saved by private investors. This is total nonsense.

The company has increased its profits by 60% to over £400 million, the workforce are
embracing modernisation and there are alternative social business models that can secure
investment without adding to Government debt or competing with the NHS. The truth is
privatisation is being driven by vested interests’ desire for short-term gain.

EMPLOYEE SHARES

The feature of the recent announcement was the Government reacting to your consultative
ballot and our collective strength by shifting their position on Employee Shares. Firstly, they
made them free – only a few weeks ago the Treasury were insisting you should pay for them
at a discount price. Secondly, they said you would be offered 10% upfront – irrespective of how much of the overall company may be sold. The Government and Royal Mail want to make free shares the focus of the debate and hope this will distract Postal Workers from the reality of what privatisation can bring.

The CWU is not going to engage in a token debate about whether or not employees should
accept free shares – instead we will focus on the crucial issues that will determine your future.

PAY

As a direct response to the CWU consultative ballot the company offered a 3 year pay and
conditions deal. This was their first offer and it was rejected for the following reasons:

• The pay element was not enough and neither was the money in years 2 and 3,
or the lump sum, guaranteed.

• The overall deal was laden with unacceptable strings, including the previously
rejected pension proposal.

• The so called protections on offer were not extensive enough, neither were they legally
binding or underwritten by Government. If there were to be a change in future ownership,
what Royal Mail offered was not worth the paper it was written on.

• The offer did not address our claim for improved overtime and scheduled attendance rates.

• The offer did not address our claim for improved bonus/incentive arrangements.
Instead the company now say that all future bonus arrangements will eventually be replaced by the Government’s proposal for free shares.

To be clear – the offer Royal Mail published in the press and in their internal communications
is long dead. The company have told the union they will be making an improved offer at
some point – the ball is firmly in their court and patience is wearing thin.
We have told Royal Mail we want a straight forward, above inflation deal that meets
the policy you endorsed by 99% in the consultative ballot. That remains our position.

PENSIONS

CWU members are entitled to feel surprised and angry that after Royal Mail said pensions were secure; they now propose further changes. The scheme is not in deficit – what the company want to do is use £2.2 billion of further assets that were set aside to fund the final salary link,to instead lower their own contribution and subsidise privatisation. For the company to present this proposal as some kind of benefit linked to pay is nothing short of scandalous.

The CWU questions the legality and legitimacy of these proposals in light of their linkage to the original State Aid case. We are in no doubt that the actions of the Government, Royal Mail and the Trustee Board are wrong and must be challenged. We have rejected the proposal and any linkage to pay.

The CWU has set a robust policy and this will be discussed with our Representatives on the
31st July 2013. We will also place an insert giving you more detailed information in the next
edition of The Voice.

If there was an opportunity to achieve enforceable, long-term guarantees to keep the Defined Benefit Scheme open and also gain significant improvements to the Defined Contribution Scheme, then the union would negotiate on such a proposal. But that is not the offer on the table. There are no guarantees, just well crafted get out clauses for the company. Neither has Royal Mail convinced us about the reasons why this has happened.

THE BOYCOTT

The boycott of competitors’ mail was part of an overall strategy to highlight the damage being done to UK Postal Services and CWU members’ jobs – we always knew a legal challenge was likely.

Having considered lawyers’ advice and the risk that an injunction could prevent future legal
industrial action, the CWU gave RM an undertaking not to trigger a boycott purely on the
basis of the consultative ballot result. But that undertaking also said we would now explore
if a boycott could take place as part of a legal industrial action ballot. An industrial action
ballot will include this option.

The boycott policy has already been effective in creating publicity and making Ofcom backtrack on further damaging proposals to USO service standards and commit to firmer monitoring of the competitors’ activities with a major review in 2015.

In recent months the company has performed a somersault; they have gone from being a vocal critic to a supporter of Ofcom’s wait and see approach. Meanwhile speculation mounts that a private Royal Mail may look to do a deal with the likes of TNT. Be assured the boycott remains on our agenda.

WORKPLACE ISSUES/NON-CO-OPERATION

You voted by 92% to support the policy of non-co-operation and we must now enforce
this consistently in every local office and every RM function.
It is the link with preparing for privatisation that means we must challenge Royal Mail over their future strategy and how this affects your daily workload.

There remains a massive disconnect between the growth in packets and parcels and relentless Royal Mail budget cuts which bear no resemblance to the reality of your local environment or our National Agreements.

Six months on from Royal Mail’s announcement that they are now a parcels company, nobody
is any the wiser about what this means to your job, workload and the existing networks and
structures across the organisation. This is unacceptable.

Until we reach an agreement that influences all aspects of their future strategy and deals with all outstanding workplace issues, then the policy of non-co-operation must remain in place.
For the purpose of complete clarity, we are not asking you to take unofficial industrial action.
What we do expect is adherence to the following:

• No local unit should be supporting any further budget cuts, efficiency savings or revisions
outside of the BT2012 programme, or any revisions/savings not covered by existing
National Agreements.

• Due to our concerns over the possibility of new networks being used for parcel and packet
growth, we are not supporting any further Mail Centre or Regional Distribution Centre
rationalisation.

• Due to our concerns that the WCM National Agreement is being abused by Royal Mail,
we are not supporting any further savings derived from WCM.

• To implement the policy of non-co-operation, local units should hold a meeting with
the membership. If Royal Mail propose new budget cuts etc, a disagreement should be
registered with the appropriate Royal Mail manager, utilising the nationally agreed
Industrial Relations Framework procedures.

• If management ignore our agreed procedures, threaten or take executive action,
then the local unit should request a local industrial action ballot.

The CWU recognises that change must continue to evolve to create sustainable jobs.
But we will never accept company diktat.


EVERYTHING STILL TO PLAY FOR:

The Government announcement did not confirm a definitive timetable for privatisation.

A political fight is growing. Labour, SNP, Plaid Cymru, parties in Northern Ireland and throughout the UK are all now in direct opposition to privatisation.

A Special Parliamentary Debate will now take place on 2nd September and a BIS Select Committee Hearing has been arranged for 10th September.

An influential Tory Back Bench Pressure Group (The Bow Group),has now come out against privatisation.

An independent poll commissioned by the Tory Bow Group showed 67% of the public are against privatisation.

City investors are nervous of market conditions and the role CWU will play.

Support the campaign – see the union’s letter to Michael Fallon.
Visit cwu.org and saveourroyalmail.org

We shall see how far we have come after this agreement. I do understand that we could not have achieved everything (reality check - checked) that we set out to achieve but how much would we have achieved from the aims above.

And is it not interesting that some of us were already predicting wildcat strikes in delivery. From my point of view, I always suspected that the Union will not achieve much with delivery issues (workload, B&H and unreasonable demands etc). So, the solution is for offices to walk out - will that not be contradictory to the assertion that the threat of strike is more important than striking? Also will the CWU not feel embarrassed if units starts walking out in numbers and with frequency?

[fishtank]

We mustn't forget that the union has told us time and again to 'do the job properly' only for the majority to carry on 'not doing the job properly' and then moan about the consequences - lapsing, etc.

The vast majority of lapsing is down to fluctuations in mail volumes,revisions built on high model weeks,over-staffing in some areas and managers ignoring resourcing agreements and of course the questionable validity of the resourcing tools/figures..

If it was all down to members not doing the job properly it would only be those members not doing the job properly that were doing the lapsing in which case we would be pissing ourselves laughing and celebrating lapsing as the greatest thing since sliced bread.Bad practice plays a part but it's not the largest part by far.

[dvbuk55]

We mustn't forget that the union has told us time and again to 'do the job properly' only for the majority to carry on 'not doing the job properly' and then moan about the consequences - lapsing, etc.

Yes of course and the law tells you to do 30 in a 30 mile limit.....................and if you don't and are caught then there is retribution because the law is upheld.
There is therefore little point in agreeing stipulations if you do not intend to see they are adhered to and maintained.

[chrisj]

Have any of you established posties stopped to consider that one big reason myself and others come in early (and usually finish early) which you are critical of because it helps the DOMs claim everything's all rosy in the garden IS BECAUSE WE ARE ON 6-MONTH RENEWABLE CONTRACTS?? I have a family to feed and from one who has come from outside the public sector (ironic as now we are the private sector...) I can say the delivery job does provide a living wage and yes, the CWU over the years has ensured this.
I experienced a short spell of unemployment before joining and my Lord was it depressing. To have a decent wage (compared to the crap MW offers that are around for similar manual positions) was a great relief to me, and despite the stress I often feel in the office I enjoy being out on delivery. The thing is, during my first few months I was bitten and advised by a manager NOT to report it as it "has to be logged and you could go down as 'accident-prone' as a result which may affect your chances of another 6-months work." Last week me and a partner had to delivery literally tens of kilos of thick households left from the week before that various posties had ignored when put on the job that previous week for one day at a time only - these were thrown off (4 days worth) all at once by a 'light duties' injured person, and as a reward for delivering them when they weren't ours, did they tell the light-duties person to throw the rest of ours off in exchange for us delivering them?? DID THEY ****!!!
OK, you think this is a digression from the thread, but it's not. My point is, has any deal/negotiation been reached over the use of these 6-month deals? They are a clear invitation for us to be blackmailed and shat upon by being given crap treatment they wouldn't dare give to established posties. My rep did say the buggers were even considering bringing in ZERO HOUR deals, but he said the CWU would never agree, so I hope this was the case. 6-months is bad enough. I know guys who've done 3-years on 6-month deals, which is pointless as after 2 years you have the same redundancy and tribunal rights as someone who's done 2 years on a permanent deal. Obviously after 4 years you have to be permanent by law anyway. My rep has stated that he hoped to get the good 6-monthers permanent contracts to ease their worries. Any ideas??

Sorry, what is the point? Are you for the agreement or not?

You come early and finish (usually) early - that is not a big big problem...

You are on a short-term contract - yes, it sucks but it does not mean you should be doing things wrong. I presume that you are part of the Union - do you think it is OK not to report a dog bite incident or accidents just because you are on a temp contract?

If you are a good worker then you will be fine but it does not mean the standards for everyone has to be lowered or workload increased unreasonably just because you have job security issues.

I give you a few more year when you have become permanent and then you will change your tune?

[dvbuk55]

Well lets get to the nub of the debate.

Of the issues we had the consultation on and the same basis for industrial action Pensions are subject to a special deal and Delivery issues including B&H are also awaiting a "survey" and neither are resolved so really only two of the four issues have been resolved as opposed to "NOTHING IS AGREED UNTIL EVERYTHING IS AGREED" - you don't actually need a lawyer to explain that.

Now lets discuss the "Lapsing shared savings scheme". I know you have to laugh. Many of you may not remember the previous savings sharing, yet another master stroke, whereby once certain targets were met then any additional saving was "shared" 50/50 with RM. Well of course the savings target was totally unrealistic and was never met and so the members got sweet FA. This scheme is not an incentive but yet another stick to beat the delivery officer.

Some may feel we "overplayed our hand" with the threat of IA - no they didn't overplay the hand, they didn't play it at all. They waved it about like a limp wotsit promising much, delivering nothing.

What we have is an early attempt by dingo to marginalise the negative and accent whatever positives there may be. I smell another ground breaking deal of the century. This is not an attack on the poster who probably maybe believes what he's saying

[BernardBresslaw]

On the subject of delivery span - the issue isn't how long a delivery should be, but how intensively you are expected to work during that time. A 6 hour delivery, which I currently do, is not a problem if you work at a moderate pace, it is when you are asked to work your balls off that problems arise.

[gashead-postie]

well perhaps its the long term plan of rm to run all the senior staff into the ground and get rid of those old contracts

[chrisj]

I clearly agree that dingo is 'Spinning' but using the 'Malcolm Tucker' approach is not appealing. Perhaps trying to marginalise dissenters - especially with with his recent offerings (last few weeks) is probably true...

If my manager speaks like dingo, I will be well and truly put off - we have the 'look', 'lets get something clear', 'that is rubbish' and so on...

There are some sycophants and gullible ones here that do not realise that dingo has an agenda and he is not just giving information out of the goodness of his heart - it part of the Spin and most of it is sanctioned by CWU.

Reading the Agreement is the only way to be able to make an informed decision - not from snippets and offering from an insider who is also a Spin Doctor.

[halfull]

I clearly agree that dingo is 'Spinning' but using the 'Malcolm Tucker' approach is not appealing. Perhaps trying marginalise - with his recent offering (last few weeks) is probably true...

If my manager speaks like dingo, I will be well and truly put off - we have the 'look', 'lets get something clear', 'that is rubbish' and so on...

There are some sycophants and gullible ones here that do not realise that dingo has an agenda and he is not just giving information out of the goodness of his heart - it part of the Spin and most of it is sanctioned by CWU.

Reading the Agreement is the only way to be able to make an informed decision - not from snippets and offering from an insider who is also a Spin Doctor.

[General Mannerheim]

So this survey on delivery issues and B&H.
Will we be expected to fill them in on WTL sessions again with managers hovering around and veiled threats off management if we don't fill them in correctly(for them) and then have to hand them back in to the managers to fraud...I mean send back,,,ala the Have Your say bolloxs?

[OnAFlyer]

Have any of you established posties stopped to consider that one big reason myself and others come in early (and usually finish early) which you are critical of because it helps the DOMs claim everything's all rosy in the garden IS BECAUSE WE ARE ON 6-MONTH RENEWABLE CONTRACTS?? I have a family to feed and from one who has come from outside the public sector (ironic as now we are the private sector...) I can say the delivery job does provide a living wage and yes, the CWU over the years has ensured this.
I experienced a short spell of unemployment before joining and my Lord was it depressing. To have a decent wage (compared to the crap MW offers that are around for similar manual positions) was a great relief to me, and despite the stress I often feel in the office I enjoy being out on delivery. The thing is, during my first few months I was bitten and advised by a manager NOT to report it as it "has to be logged and you could go down as 'accident-prone' as a result which may affect your chances of another 6-months work." Last week me and a partner had to delivery literally tens of kilos of thick households left from the week before that various posties had ignored when put on the job that previous week for one day at a time only - these were thrown off (4 days worth) all at once by a 'light duties' injured person, and as a reward for delivering them when they weren't ours, did they tell the light-duties person to throw the rest of ours off in exchange for us delivering them?? DID THEY ****!!!
OK, you think this is a digression from the thread, but it's not. My point is, has any deal/negotiation been reached over the use of these 6-month deals? They are a clear invitation for us to be blackmailed and shat upon by being given crap treatment they wouldn't dare give to established posties. My rep did say the buggers were even considering bringing in ZERO HOUR deals, but he said the CWU would never agree, so I hope this was the case. 6-months is bad enough. I know guys who've done 3-years on 6-month deals, which is pointless as after 2 years you have the same redundancy and tribunal rights as someone who's done 2 years on a permanent deal. Obviously after 4 years you have to be permanent by law anyway. My rep has stated that he hoped to get the good 6-monthers permanent contracts to ease their worries. Any ideas??

You have corrupt managers using the temporary contract situation to stitch you up, bend you over and shaft you silly.

Temporary contracts at the start is the way it's always been in RM, ok it wasn't so widespread when I started but I had a trial period of a few months like everyone else. They don't just give you a permanent FT contract from the start and they never will.

I can't remember a single person in my office who started, wanted to stay in the job and wasn't kept on. Not one in 16 years. Even the retards who can't sort, can't learn IPS and can't do a delivery within time are kept on.

There's a difference between not wanting to be awkward, and being a doormat and destroying the job for yourself. The irony is, by going in early, doing extra work you shouldn't etc you are actually saving hours in the office - and that means less staff needed and less chance of you actually being made permanent.

[Danelectro]

Sometimes you have to sacrifice protecting the job in order to protect jobs but sometimes the opposite applies.There is no point in having a full-time job if you can't physically do it.

This is what should be shaping union policy over the coming years.I almost agree that 4 hours using the right methods and subsequent fair workload is a good starting point for a max delivery span.

But I've seen the effect of a 4.15 span in an office mainly delivering to tenements/flats and the subsequent climbing of 70 to 90 flights of stairs day in day out and its causing an increase in mainly joint/muscular health issues so I have my doubts that even at 4 this kind of delivery will not leave members with long term joint/muscle problems.

There really needs to be some independent medical assessment of how stairs(along with other delivery types) are likely to impact on the joints and muscles long term.If this leads to less full time jobs in an office and some of the indoor work is reallocated then so be it. Otherwise a member now in their 50s who has been paying into the union for 30 years could well be out of a job sooner than they'd like.The loss of indoor work on some of the part time jobs could maybe clawed back with the increase in bulky parcels and the need for more parcel/packet drops.

Judging by Dingos leaks and the way he is trying to shape expectations then it doesn't look like this union is anywhere realistic on the workloads they are willing to impose on the membership even when the job is done properly.The lapsing incentive in my office would be nothing more than compensation for the job turning you into a cripple.

[Stella102]

a reality check yeh the bloody union and royal mail need one not us.

why are staff who leave not being replaced, why are we expected to deliver mail to f***ing 4 o clock every wed thur fri and if we cut off we get our name put on a list and any f**k up or complaint leads to conduct code. BULL f***ing s**t.

BTW WE are still lapsing over x mas and we were told after revision that lapsing would be abolished!! yeh right!!!

[Brain Fury]

I'm told that there are postal authorities in Europe that already have a delivery span over 5 hours but don't have any more details. I agree that it's unlikely that older posties would be able to cope with that particularly after a number of years doing the job. I think increased usage of part time work is the solution but then again I expect the agreement to maintain the commitment to the 75/25% split so I really don't know what the future holds.