Agreement reached 4th december

[dvbuk55]

What I can't grasp is, if the PEC have been deciding that sufficient progress has been made to extend the ballot, what have they been doing, reading and basing that opinion on?

[cloherty1976]

What I can't grasp is, if the PEC have been deciding that sufficient progress has been made to extend the ballot, what have they been doing, reading and basing that opinion on?

The word I would use is spin

[dvbuk55]

The same old same old from dingo but the fact of the matter is everything is not agreed so nothing is agreed particularly on deliveries apparently. The 75%+ of the workforce which are, have been or will be affected by doing nothing should vote no. If the union cannot in effect negotiate the conditions because Royal Mail will not recognise that bullying and harassment and unrealistic workloads exists then what is the point. The money is a secondary issue and the agreement has yet to go to a ballot.

As for what the union did almost 18 years ago is totally irrelevant to what this modern business requires. 18 years ago the workforce was almost exclusively full time and almost 100% members of the union.

What deliveries end up with is a fudged statement on surveys and make believe.

The union had the option to show serious intent in the negotiations and bottled it, they'll never get the chance again.

[Martin Walsh]

What I can't grasp is, if the PEC have been deciding that sufficient progress has been made to extend the ballot, what have they been doing, reading and basing that opinion on?

They get a full report and they debate the issues. The negotiators make a recommendation and its voted on.

Now the PEC are meeting this afternoon , again tomorrow and with a backstop of Friday. They will also have the solicitors explains the legally binding stuff.

[biscuit1957]

The full terms of the Negotiators’ Agreement, including a groundbreaking legal contract between the employer and CWU, will be placed before the Union’s Postal Executive Council for endorsement over the next few days.
So if they say no what happens then? so it is obvious it is agreed so why the ballot and why more waiting?

[Martin Walsh]

The full terms of the Negotiators’ Agreement, including a groundbreaking legal contract between the employer and CWU, will be placed before the Union’s Postal Executive Council for endorsement over the next few days.
So if they say no what happens then? so it is obvious it is agreed so why the ballot and why more waiting?

The ballot has been agreed to be validated by the strike action of area reps and Divisional Reps next wednesday and therefore will be live and can be actioned if the members vote down any agreement.

[The_Wax_Man]

The same old same old from dingo but the fact of the matter is everything is not agreed so nothing is agreed particularly on deliveries apparently. The 75%+ of the workforce which are, have been or will be affected by doing nothing should vote no. If the union cannot in effect negotiate the conditions because Royal Mail will not recognise that bullying and harassment and unrealistic workloads exists then what is the point. The money is a secondary issue and the agreement has yet to go to a ballot.

As for what the union did almost 18 years ago is totally irrelevant to what this modern business requires. 18 years ago the workforce was almost exclusively full time and almost 100% members of the union.

What deliveries end up with is a fudged statement on surveys and make believe.

The union had the option to show serious intent in the negotiations and bottled it, they'll never get the chance again.

dvb I fully agree with you on the deliveries - Nothng has been agreed other than a 'workshop' through 2014 etc to 'see' how things are - I suspect the rest of the agreement was done fairly much nailed down weeks ago and RM refused to budge on any B&H discussion but said 'look we have agreed on 70%, let's do that and set up a review next year on the rest.'

A lot of things from RM will be introduced next year from RM in accordance with what their pipeline is saying which in effect means things to do with deliveries - all they are doing here is rolling it all up in the same ball so they can be seen to 'looking' at the problems etc.

With regards to: The union had the option to show serious intent in the negotiations and bottled it, they'll never get the chance again

Correct, I very much doubt if the union will have such a chance to make such an impact as what they could have done. I see that as the biggest missed chance on all of this.

What has comes across thus far seems to have been more of a salvage exercise as opposed to the original 'slam fists' on table. The members will speak once the detail is available - alas I fear the dangle of the dollar will speak louder.

Both sides claiming victory and both sides saving face = Salvage exercise.

[viking1488]

Shafted again, our union must be worst anywhere

Your on a wind up surely. The CWU have not got a veto on the change which Royal Mail want to introduce and the role of the trade union is to try and minimise job reductions and where jobs do go to avoid compulsory redundancies. Tell me that thousands of jobs have gone through automation , mail centre closures , revisions, this has occurred during a time when Royal Mail have lost revenue due to DSA etc.

The CWU have also over the last decade significantly improved basic pay. Some will say it is never enough but lets be clear up to the 1996 employee agenda the majority of delivery postmen and women were on £10 000 for working a 6 day week. We have significantly more on basic pay and now all have at least a 5 day week or better.

When I came in the job we were on 43 hours , now we are working 39 hours with no lost of pay.

In terms of D2D lets be clear, Royal Mail see advertising mail as a gold mine for the future and they were never going to leave it as it was in 2009 as it was not growing the produce and quality was poor. The CWU achieved a payment for working the same hours as you currently do for delivering the rest of the work.

People in deliveries are working harder then they were. Too hard in some offices. This needs to be addressed but anyone who thinks that Royal Mail are going to say we will allow offices to revert to job and knock and we do not want people to work the hours they are paid is living in dreamland.

What the delivery agreement will do is have a joint audit and visits and surveys of offices to find out exactly what problems there are. This includes why some offices are not having the same problems as others and why some agreements are being adhered to in some areas and some are not.

It so easy to talk about sell outs but your idea that a union can stop everything is clearly not correct. Look how strong the miners were but could they prevent automation and eventually efficiency targets which led to the pit closures.

The CWU have lots of faults but no one is trying to sell anyone out if that was the case they would have done the first deal and accepted a lot worse then they have now got.

efficiency targets which led to the pit closure what a load of total s**t the pits started to close because they were not profitable (a) they were losing money and better quality coal could be bought from overseas at a cheaper price

(b) The National Union of Mineworkers had, for too long, held the county to ransom by threatening strikes every time they did not get their way. so sorry dingo nothing to do with efficiency targets

[viking1488]

The full terms of the Negotiators’ Agreement, including a groundbreaking legal contract between the employer and CWU, will be placed before the Union’s Postal Executive Council for endorsement over the next few days.
So if they say no what happens then? so it is obvious it is agreed so why the ballot and why more waiting?

The ballot has been agreed to be validated by the strike action of area reps and Divisional Reps next wednesday and therefore will be live and can be actioned if the members vote down any agreement.

groundbreaking well i think we will have to wait and see i would rather think if laurel and hardy have got anything to do with the deal at least it will be a laughable groundbreaking event and as i see it we are the union not the other way around if its as groundbreaking as they say why hold off just wasting more time if you ask me

[scirocco'r']

By resourcing to budget and not to traffic the company was and is breaching a national agreement.
If the union cannot hold them to the current agreement they will not hold them to the new one.
Delivery would have gone out on strike.
The company has effectively split the workforce and broken the union.
The CWU will limp along for the next five to ten years and then it will cease to exist.
Moya Greene has triumphed.
The only thing Ward and Hayes can do now is use union funds to buy shares

[gashead-postie]

the official statement mentions nothing at all about b and h or excessive workloads on delivery

do the cwu not understand why offices are now walking out all over the country

whats the point of a pay rise if half the staff are either out sick or have jacked it in

[halfull]

if delivery is shafted again its a no on my vote

[bigmouthstrikesagain]

At least give the PE time to fully consider the deal including the complex legal protections before individuals jump to ridiculous conclusions regarding the merits of the agreement or whether it is worthy of recommendation.

[gashead-postie]

if there is an agreement to review deliveries we all know where that will go like every other review over the years

[pants123]

i am so hoping that all the big waiting game, and extension has been worth it for the members... i'm sure the union wouldn't sell out on delivery, i feel they made mistakes in the 2010 agreement, but have got their act together this time..
i look forward to this agreement and hope it's all been worth it,,,, cheers Dingo for your info, i do feel from the snippets of info you gave, it may be a better deal than the BT 2010 agreement..