Union agrees yet another extension

[k979aaa]

The very fact is Royal Mail don't give two hoots to delivery and eventually processing and distribution we on the front line know this but do the top of our union? We need an agreement but not just any agreement but a fair one for all.

[Martin Walsh]

Fish the old structure pre 1992 was what you're suggesting and it failed. When we had close on a 1000 Branch's. And the lead negotiator for each of the thousand Branch's was the Branch Secretary.

It was the strong who prevailed and the weak who got taken to the cleaners.

If your negotiating for an office with say 150 people your strength is often better than say an office with 25.

Equally Royal Mail in 1992 when they introduced functions decided to save money on the full release of local reps. By introducing an area rep and divisional structure whereas previously the Tierra above the Branch Secretary was the JAC secretary and then the Divisional Organiser.

It did not work then and it would not work now. If a local rep could get a better deal higher up then they go through the framework.

Equally why would Royal Mail directors want to deal with 130 local reps instead of 2 divisional reps or a DSM deal with 10 to 12 local reps rather then an area rep ?

[dvbuk55]

Just on a slight slant on collective bargaining with senior managers. In my experience the higher you negotiate..the stupider they are! They have not a clue!

Very true. The problem with dealing with people higher up the managerial chain is that they have no idea what the shop floor does but they believe they can always do more. One bloke I had dealings with at another place had spent months working on a new set of procedures for carrying out the work, you know the script, flow charts, the day broken down in minute detail on an excel sheet, how long x, y and z would take. After looking at it for just a short time I asked where on the program was time the staff would take lunch, he looked perplexed and his brow furrowed, he then blurted "well we'll find time somewhere" and I just said well when you've found the somewhere bring it back and I'll look at it again. He never came back to me so he was too embarrassed or he couldn't find time for lunch at lunch time.

[dvbuk55]

Fish the old structure pre 1992 was what you're suggesting and it failed. When we had close on a 1000 Branch's. And the lead negotiator for each of the thousand Branch's was the Branch Secretary.

It was the strong who prevailed and the weak who got taken to the cleaners.

If your negotiating for an office with say 150 people your strength is often better than say an office with 25.

Equally Royal Mail in 1992 when they introduced functions decided to save money on the full release of local reps. By introducing an area rep and divisional structure whereas previously the Tierra above the Branch Secretary was the JAC secretary and then the Divisional Organiser.

It did not work then and it would not work now. If a local rep could get a better deal higher up then they go through the framework.

Equally why would Royal Mail directors want to deal with 130 local reps instead of 2 divisional reps or a DSM deal with 10 to 12 local reps rather then an area rep ?

You know dingo the union should actually employ people to look at the structure of the union to try to streamline the organisation and make it fit for purpose. Have you seen the number of people required to run a Branch office for example. You know how the workforce have had to change over the last few years well it's time the union looked at itself and take the bull by the horns and become leaner and meaner.

You point out the previous union organisation that did not work and to return to that would not work BUT the organisation we have now created 21 years ago does not work either.

[drb]

Just on another point of Div reps. They do receive an enhanced pension as well as,(and if I am wrong then please correct me) about £32,000 per year.Funded by the employer. Hardly impartial,(if true). We as unit reps want:

No bullying
A fair and manageable workload
The time to pick up our children,(as promised in 2003 under job and f***ing knock)

I believe that the time is now to rip out that structure and involve those on the shopfloor. How? Not sure.But we do have a democratic process and we should use it. In whatever form that may be.

[fishtank]

Equally why would Royal Mail directors want to deal with 130 local reps instead of 2 divisional reps or a DSM deal with 10 to 12 local reps rather than an area rep ?

You already explained why yourself.

The reality is that the director is now the one who is responsible for overspends and targets not being achieved. Therefore this is why the delivery offices are micro managed and why the centre rolls out all the new tools etc.

The frustrating thing for most local reps now is that they can not do local deals , this is the same for a number of area reps as more issues are now raised to director level.

They know they can undermine national agreements far easier by micro-managing delivery offices,they know they can undermine area reps and branches far easier by micro-managing delivery offices.
I've had the conversations at that level with both DSM and Director,"office a" is doing things this way why aren't you?,"office b" has agreed to banking hours why haven't you?,"office c" is performing at this level why aren't you?

[thelastpostie]

Fish the old structure pre 1992 was what you're suggesting and it failed. When we had close on a 1000 Branch's. And the lead negotiator for each of the thousand Branch's was the Branch Secretary.

It was the strong who prevailed and the weak who got taken to the cleaners.

If your negotiating for an office with say 150 people your strength is often better than say an office with 25.

Equally Royal Mail in 1992 when they introduced functions decided to save money on the full release of local reps. By introducing an area rep and divisional structure whereas previously the Tierra above the Branch Secretary was the JAC secretary and then the Divisional Organiser.

It did not work then and it would not work now. If a local rep could get a better deal higher up then they go through the framework.

Equally why would Royal Mail directors want to deal with 130 local reps instead of 2 divisional reps or a DSM deal with 10 to 12 local reps rather then an area rep ?

You know dingo the union should actually employ people to look at the structure of the union to try to streamline the organisation and make it fit for purpose. Have you seen the number of people required to run a Branch office for example. You know how the workforce have had to change over the last few years well it's time the union looked at itself and take the bull by the horns and become leaner and meaner.

You point out the previous union organisation that did not work and to return to that would not work BUT the organisation we have now created 21 years ago does not work either.

In addition I think the union should have a period of consultation with the members followed by a special to discuss the future size, shape and structure of the union at every level. Everything should be up for discussion, as I believe the status quo is not an option.

[dvbuk55]

In addition I think the union should have a period of consultation with the members followed by a special to discuss the future size, shape and structure of the union at every level. Everything should be up for discussion, as I believe the status quo is not an option.

I agree with you, many other members would too but we have no chance of changing things because there are those who have a vested interest in having things remain exactly the same.

[Ahebban]

Very true, Fishtank. If local Unit Reps are having Weekly Resource Meetings in full they are gaining valuable experience in how Royal Mail's business plan functions, and they can see how the budget plan relates to national agreements. Reps can ask the awkward questions and flag any difficulties to the Area Rep, using the IR Framework as the basis for resolution. The CWU is beginning to make better use of technology in getting information out to members and that is to be welcomed. In doing so the CWU must look at its structure to see where layers can be removed without disrupting the important functions of the CWU as a whole.

The training structure for Unit Reps may well have to change. The basic courses are still valuable training aids, but they could be enhanced through additional adhoc training which would keep Unit Reps up-to-date with current RM thinking and practice. The opportunity for Unit Reps to have access to DSMs can only be a benefit to CWU members in the long run. It could help bridge the gap between what management expect to happen and what actually happens at DOs. DSMs could attend/address Section meetings bi-monthly establishing a valuable link that ensures there is no hiding place and full accountability on both sides in the decision-making process.

The CWU would only benefit from researching other UK and International unions to establish how different structures work, and could be made to work within our postal industry as a whole. In an ever-changing business the CWU has to act fast or find its ability to influence decision-making process will diminish.

[drb]

Divisional reps should be pushing the issue - "resource meetings are mandatory"

[clashcityrocker]

Just on a slight slant on collective bargaining with senior managers. In my experience the higher you negotiate..the stupider they are! They have not a clue!

I don't think they are stupid at all. They wouldn't have got to where if they were stupid.
They aren't however interested in the minutiae of life in your DO.

[daveyeff]

Just on a slight slant on collective bargaining with senior managers. In my experience the higher you negotiate..the stupider they are! They have not a clue!

I don't think they are stupid at all. They wouldn't have got to where if they were stupid.
They aren't however interested in the minutiae of life in your DO.

they may not be stupid, but they certainly dont have a clue about the coalface/goalline workers. then again, they dont need to know in their eyes. a business manager is equivalent to a pornstar. jumping from one job to the next, they are all the same as far as they are concerned. you,ve done one, you,ve done them all. take higson for example, he was in charge of a concrete firm before rm, now our fate is ''set'' in stone.

[whatamess!!]

Divisional reps should be pushing the issue - "resource meetings are mandatory"

I tend to feel Div reps are too close to management, they don't want to rock the boat to much, keep um sweet at branch and RM level, whilst they get paid their £32,000 per annum

[dvbuk55]

Divisional reps should be pushing the issue - "resource meetings are mandatory"

I tend to feel Div reps are too close to management, they don't want to rock the boat to much, keep um sweet at branch and RM level, whilst they get paid their £32,000 per annum

Well it is quite a chunk so I can see why nobody wants to do the job

[daveyeff]

32 grand. who off? the union?