Union agrees yet another extension

[alwayskint]

Pay has increased by 0.5% not by 0.05%

[NWpostie]

Its a case of choosing your battles I think, we get a better pay rise and lump sum, 5 year T&C protection and no "stability pact"


The B&H on deliveries is going to be a difficult one to be dealt with separately, personally I think the best route to deal with that is to go on a road show, internal communications, educate the staff and area reps round all the delivery offices on how to deal with this issue, sometimes its a lack of confidence in dealing with the issues, a united office is the only effective way to deal with B&H effectively, being clear on what is the right way to confront bullying and unrealistic workloads. the agreements on dealing with this, is there there problem is that on the ground it is not being implemented the Bosses will try to blind and confuse you with bullcrap. teh way to defeat this is having knowledge of the agreement and the willingness to use it.

Sometime some Posties are their own worst enemy, by using cars, coming in early, not using correct equipment, cutting corners, doorstepping, the Bosses take advantage of that.

A UNITED office is a STRONG office, YOU are the UNION !

[dvbuk55]

Its a case of choosing your battles I think, we get a better pay rise and lump sum, 5 year T&C protection and no "stability pact"


The B&H on deliveries is going to be a difficult one to be dealt with separately, personally I think the best route to deal with that is to go on a road show, internal communications, educate the staff and area reps round all the delivery offices on how to deal with this issue, sometimes its a lack of confidence in dealing with the issues, a united office is the only effective way to deal with B&H effectively, being clear on what is the right way to confront bullying and unrealistic workloads. the agreements on dealing with this, is there there problem is that on the ground it is not being implemented the Bosses will try to blind and confuse you with bullcrap. teh way to defeat this is having knowledge of the agreement and the willingness to use it.

Sometime some Posties are their own worst enemy, by using cars, coming in early, not using correct equipment, cutting corners, doorstepping, the Bosses take advantage of that.

A UNITED office is a STRONG office, YOU are the UNION !

Wonderful, wonderful platitudes there NW and that's exactly what they are. To begin with the last communication said 3 years not 5. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed has obviously gone by the wayside because B&H and a fair workload are NOT going to be addressed despite having a ballot to press for change. A united office is a strong office great - except the workforce within a delivery unit has been divided by the huge influx of part time workers. WE are the union was true 20 years ago even 10 years ago but that isn't true today.

Tell me - if the workforce in a single delivery office was united would there not be dozens of walk outs like Crewe and Weston - that more than anything is indicative of the state of the union in the 21st century, they have simply failed to modernise and adapt - they talk the talk but are too weak to walk the walk.
They have failed miserably to recruit, they have failed miserably to unite, they have failed to communicate to the workforce and they have failed to distance themselves from the employer.

[tansorboy]

Its a case of choosing your battles I think, we get a better pay rise and lump sum, 5 year T&C protection and no "stability pact"


The B&H on deliveries is going to be a difficult one to be dealt with separately, personally I think the best route to deal with that is to go on a road show, internal communications, educate the staff and area reps round all the delivery offices on how to deal with this issue, sometimes its a lack of confidence in dealing with the issues, a united office is the only effective way to deal with B&H effectively, being clear on what is the right way to confront bullying and unrealistic workloads. the agreements on dealing with this, is there there problem is that on the ground it is not being implemented the Bosses will try to blind and confuse you with bullcrap. teh way to defeat this is having knowledge of the agreement and the willingness to use it.

Sometime some Posties are their own worst enemy, by using cars, coming in early, not using correct equipment, cutting corners, doorstepping, the Bosses take advantage of that.

A UNITED office is a STRONG office, YOU are the UNION !

Wonderful, wonderful platitudes there NW and that's exactly what they are. To begin with the last communication said 3 years not 5. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed has obviously gone by the wayside because B&H and a fair workload are NOT going to be addressed despite having a ballot to press for change. A united office is a strong office great - except the workforce within a delivery unit has been divided by the huge influx of part time workers. WE are the union was true 20 years ago even 10 years ago but that isn't true today.

Tell me - if the workforce in a single delivery office was united would there not be dozens of walk outs like Crewe and Weston - that more than anything is indicative of the state of the union in the 21st century, they have simply failed to modernise and adapt - they talk the talk but are too weak to walk the walk.
They have failed miserably to recruit, they have failed miserably to unite, they have failed to communicate to the workforce and they have failed to distance themselves from the employer.

[chrisj]

Pay has increased by 0.5% not by 0.05%

You are absolutely right. Based on the assumptions from information gleaned from dingo's post, year 1 will now be 2.6 + 0.5 (3.1%) and year 2 becomes 3.5 and year 3 becomes 3.3% - an addition of 1.5% making the 3 years increase about 10.1%

The ironic thing is that it averages 3.37% over the 3 years. Whereas Royal Mail puts the average at 3.7% (base pay and lump sum combined).

The winners out of this are people that do Overtime - especially part-timers because a percentage pay increase is always better than a pro-rate lump sum.. People on basic pay will still have earned about £300 over 3 years. And without back pay, they will actually have lost out because in the original offer RM promised a back pay from April 2013.

[NWpostie]

Its a case of choosing your battles I think, we get a better pay rise and lump sum, 5 year T&C protection and no "stability pact"


The B&H on deliveries is going to be a difficult one to be dealt with separately, personally I think the best route to deal with that is to go on a road show, internal communications, educate the staff and area reps round all the delivery offices on how to deal with this issue, sometimes its a lack of confidence in dealing with the issues, a united office is the only effective way to deal with B&H effectively, being clear on what is the right way to confront bullying and unrealistic workloads. the agreements on dealing with this, is there there problem is that on the ground it is not being implemented the Bosses will try to blind and confuse you with bullcrap. teh way to defeat this is having knowledge of the agreement and the willingness to use it.

Sometime some Posties are their own worst enemy, by using cars, coming in early, not using correct equipment, cutting corners, doorstepping, the Bosses take advantage of that.

A UNITED office is a STRONG office, YOU are the UNION !

Wonderful, wonderful platitudes there NW and that's exactly what they are. To begin with the last communication said 3 years not 5. Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed has obviously gone by the wayside because B&H and a fair workload are NOT going to be addressed despite having a ballot to press for change. A united office is a strong office great - except the workforce within a delivery unit has been divided by the huge influx of part time workers. WE are the union was true 20 years ago even 10 years ago but that isn't true today.

Tell me - if the workforce in a single delivery office was united would there not be dozens of walk outs like Crewe and Weston - that more than anything is indicative of the state of the union in the 21st century, they have simply failed to modernise and adapt - they talk the talk but are too weak to walk the walk.
They have failed miserably to recruit, they have failed miserably to unite, they have failed to communicate to the workforce and they have failed to distance themselves from the employer.

Whats your solution then ?

The BT2010 agreement is not being implemented in the spirit it was written, runners are ruining the job, what happened in Crewe is by walking out they are doing what I have said, being a united office and confronting the B&H. there should be no division between part timers and full timers both are Union members.

[Big Daz]

No offence to dingo, but he said, two extensions ago, that either there would be a deal or we would be on the gates - no more extensions, we were promised.

I hear word now that a further extension has been agreed to the 10th December. You really couldn't make it up. The union negotiators continue to play straight into the hands of Royal Mail, and it's 'get through Christmas pressure at any cost' policy. Are they really that naive?

Extension in reality expires 3rd as the legal notice of action would need to be given no later than then for action on the 10th. The 10th is the last possible legal date for action.

The PEC and the national officers therefore HAVE to make a decision at their meeting tomorrow is the most current offer good enough to put to the membership or does IA need to be called for the 10th.

[fishtank]

The PEC and the national officers therefore HAVE to make a decision at their meeting tomorrow is the most current offer good enough to put to the membership or does IA need to be called for the 10th.

Or they could call another extension and allow the strike ballot to lapse.
It's not as if it's a serious threat now anyway,however my money is on some cobbled together deal on deliveries being announced on monday with much fanfare,backslapping and hurrahs.

Only time will tell whether it's a fudge,a sop to deliveries or the real deal but given the distance they were apart on friday I'm not sure I trust something that hasn't looked like happening for the last 8 weeks but suddenly looks like happening in the last 48 hrs.
To me that looks like a desperate clutching at straws.

[dvbuk55]

Whats your solution then ?
The BT2010 agreement is not being implemented in the spirit it was written, runners are ruining the job, what happened in Crewe is by walking out they are doing what I have said, being a united office and confronting the B&H. there should be no division between part timers and full timers both are Union members.

The solution has been obvious for a long time NW, the whole union structure needs to be modernised and brought up to date so that it actually does support the membership at every level. It has been shown that there is a distinct gap between the aspirations of the leadership and that of the rank and file. How many people at unit level are remotely interested in union affairs? How many see the union as the answer to determining the role of the member in the workplace, particularly part timers.

BT2010 was ill thought out and was a cobbled deal without any real substance. It was said at the time the words are the words and the "spirit" of the agreement was never a consideration because RM will make the most of lax wording. Far too much was left to local reps to sort out the agreement as best they could without any strong guidance from the agreement itself. Runners are a fact of life, they are there now and have always been so how is it they are the root cause of the problems?

Now we come to the problem of a united workforce, how do you as an individual achieve that when there is no contact at shop floor between full time release officials and the members? Some in the office I work at have been employed for years and have NEVER seen a union man other than the unit rep and many won't know who he is because he has gone by the time they start their shift. There's a tendency by staunch union supporters to lay the failures at the members door rather than to accept the fault lies with the union itself and more especially those who cannot bring themselves to criticise an organisation that does not fulfil it's own brief.

[NWpostie]

If you feel a strongly as you do about the Union structure, have you put yourself forward for election as a Rep to do something about it ? as it is, this is the only Union that we have representing us, without it we will get screwed over without Vaseline.

Its all very well talking about it, doing something about it is far better.


*For the record I voted against BT2010 as I clearly saw the flaws in it, we could have rejected it and renegotiated, unfortunately the majority were seduced by the bribe dangling in front of their eyes and signed their life away, they are also the first to moan. sometime the Union is not the problem , some of the members are their own worst enemy and needs educating in the big picture.

[BernardBresslaw]

I think a lot of people voted for it because, like this time, the union looked unable to get anything better. That was as drawn out a process as this has been, so a lot of people probably voted apathetically.

[dvbuk55]

If you feel a strongly as you do about the Union structure, have you put yourself forward for election as a Rep to do something about it ? as it is, this is the only Union that we have representing us, without it we will get screwed over without Vaseline.

Its all very well talking about it, doing something about it is far better.


*For the record I voted against BT2010 as I clearly saw the flaws in it, we could have rejected it and renegotiated, unfortunately the majority were seduced by the bribe dangling in front of their eyes and signed their life away, they are also the first to moan. sometime the Union is not the problem , some of the members are their own worst enemy and needs educating in the big picture.

To be involved as you and many others spout you first have to be included and in the "gentlemen's club" syndrome that persists it prevents ordinary members from taking part. Full time release and officials will move heaven and earth to protect their position. Perhaps the power base needs to be shifted to the man in the street level. How can the ordinary member form an opinion when they don't know the issues nor the stance the branch are taking and the reason for that.

If you believe we could have rejected BT2010 you are seriously deluded. Lets, as one person said recently, put that deal in perspective. There was no Plan B, the Union recommended the deal but was so worried it WOULD be rejected launched a nationwide road show to ensure it WASN'T rejected, each member was NOT given a detailed copy of the agreement by the union mainly because the details had not been finalised.

What we as members are financially supporting is a 3 wheeled Robin Reliant when we are paying enough for a Porsche.

[chrisj]

Its a case of choosing your battles I think, we get a better pay rise and lump sum, 5 year T&C protection and no "stability pact"


The B&H on deliveries is going to be a difficult one to be dealt with separately, personally I think the best route to deal with that is to go on a road show, internal communications, educate the staff and area reps round all the delivery offices on how to deal with this issue, sometimes its a lack of confidence in dealing with the issues, a united office is the only effective way to deal with B&H effectively, being clear on what is the right way to confront bullying and unrealistic workloads. the agreements on dealing with this, is there there problem is that on the ground it is not being implemented the Bosses will try to blind and confuse you with bullcrap. teh way to defeat this is having knowledge of the agreement and the willingness to use it.

Sometime some Posties are their own worst enemy, by using cars, coming in early, not using correct equipment, cutting corners, doorstepping, the Bosses take advantage of that.

A UNITED office is a STRONG office, YOU are the UNION !

NWPostie, you made some very good points above and then you go and spoil it by saying the usual 'why don't you become a rep' if you are not so happy.

As was mentioned, some local Reps do not have the knowledge, the time and the support from area rep and so on and so on to deal with issues at their unit. A lot of things are imposed and/or managers get round the reps sometimes with the help of ignorant posties or just by being d*cks.

I think DVbuk is a part-timer and in the twilight of his career (I can be corrected)... How is him being a local rep going to help his unit when he is only there for 25hours or so? He did not even criticise his current Rep but said the Rep is not there to deal with all issues...

• I should just like to mention that the so-called Pay Rise might not be a pay rise for everyone. If you never ever do Overtime then the £300 lump sum originally promised is simply divided over 3 years - £100/year.
  
  You also talk about delivery issues being separate, this is what some of us have be thinking and talking about all along but we are told all the issues have to be agreed to move forward. (Pensions has also been separated).
  
  Some here think that some of us are having a go at MC staff but if the delivery issue is now going to be separate, that means we have been left to our own devices in delivery. As suspected by some of us inc dvbuk - so why should we put up with rubbish comments from MC staff that do not have the same issues.
  
  The 5 year guarantee is better than 3 years but that is only on paper because the business might be all so different in the near future - competition, parcel growth or not, regulations and a new privatised company will mean things will change one way or the other.

[dvbuk55]

I think DVbuk is a part-timer and in the twilight of his career (I can be corrected)

I had to have a chuckle at that chris, I am a part timer now, as for the twilight of my career, it's more like the midnight

[chrisj]

At least you did not take offence. I just got that info from some of your posts...

Anyways, I did predict a few weeks ago that we are probably going to be seeing more wildcat strikes or walk outs from delivery offices because I did not believe that the CWU could effectively do much about workload and B&H in deliveries.

There is no magic wand, the HQ, PEC and higher echelon are slightly remote from local members as evidenced by our London friend that tends to blame local reps for not getting the best out of the BT2010 agreement and claiming that he does get the best for his people in London.

Lastly, unity within local offices is probably key and some of us posties are not helping... Though Unity is one thing but what is even more important is that the seniors rep, divisional reps and maybe even the PEC should descend unto any unit that walks out as soon as possible to show support and to investigate and put right the issues.