Deliveries key in crunch talks at Royal Mail

[bustedflush]

But do YOU all defend the Postie that doesn't chose to start and finish early and prefers his breaks during working time when his overtime is questioned because YOU can do it faster and never claim overtime.

To be fair to some of the early starters here - they do.

Yes, we do. The first thing I realized was wrong when I started was all this "all rounds are the same" BS. Being a reserve I have on occasion been invited into a discussion between the regular on a round I've worked and a manager, when the regular is bemoaning his lapsing and journey time etc. I happily told the manager that of all rounds I'd covered the lapsing was hideous and added onto the fact the round was big too it was unfair on the regular to expect him to finish on time, because even at my pace we struggled to do it. 3 weeks later the lapsing was changed. So, yes, I'll always back up the chaps I've worked with if asked to bear witness. The odd thing about being a reserve is that often your opinion means quite a lot as you have experience of a large repertoire of rounds despite having only been there a year.
At the end of the day, you have a round with 500 calls which involves mainly walking. You have 100 different people of all ages, sizes, heights and fitness. Sometimes two fit and fast people will do a round 90 minutes quicker than the regular. Doesn't mean the regular is lazy and any observer and manager who didn't take the aforementioned factors into consideration before passing judgement isn't worthy of his opinion.

[Captain Scarlet]

It's a sad fact that more than half the post persons in my office come in early put door to doors in frame in their own time and run on delivery just so they can go home 20 mins early no meal relief and cut many corners I cannot understand why & get fed up being one of the last ones out because I start on time & work at a fair pace & always take 20 mins before delivery & 20 mins half way around , some posties seem to be able to go all day with no break

Why sad? You stated "over half come in early". What does that tell you? A democratic majority therefore put the early completion of the job BEFORE 2O minute breaks etc. And you are NOT working for free if you come in early and finish early - you are simply completing the round in an earlier time slot than proscribed. Now IF people came in early and took no break and still finished on or over their time then yes, the workload is excessive. I'd rather have my 20 minutes at home with a cup of coffee in front of the TV or in the garden in summer. It seems most think that way. People don't start early to spite the Union or reps etc. but for a better quality of life as they see it. The distinction must be made between those whom want to start early and those that have to start early. I finished at 12:55 today, and yes I came in half hour early and took no meal relief. As did my partner, the pair next to us in the aisle, and the pair next to them etc. Sometimes the managers shake their heads when we leave at 13:00-13:30 on busy days, but let us do it as they know we'll seldom ever be signing the docket sheet for going over and they are aware some of us are fast. Plus the customers get their mail earlier.

You have proper start and finish times, why do you need to come in 1/2 hr early. This job will be knackered by people like you cos RM will look to not pay for meal reliefs in the future and people like you are doing it already, why not just do the job properly, do you use the proper tools or bag over the shoulder? are you also a runner?

[bustedflush]

It's a sad fact that more than half the post persons in my office come in early put door to doors in frame in their own time and run on delivery just so they can go home 20 mins early no meal relief and cut many corners I cannot understand why & get fed up being one of the last ones out because I start on time & work at a fair pace & always take 20 mins before delivery & 20 mins half way around , some posties seem to be able to go all day with no break

Why sad? You stated "over half come in early". What does that tell you? A democratic majority therefore put the early completion of the job BEFORE 2O minute breaks etc. And you are NOT working for free if you come in early and finish early - you are simply completing the round in an earlier time slot than proscribed. Now IF people came in early and took no break and still finished on or over their time then yes, the workload is excessive. I'd rather have my 20 minutes at home with a cup of coffee in front of the TV or in the garden in summer. It seems most think that way. People don't start early to spite the Union or reps etc. but for a better quality of life as they see it. The distinction must be made between those whom want to start early and those that have to start early. I finished at 12:55 today, and yes I came in half hour early and took no meal relief. As did my partner, the pair next to us in the aisle, and the pair next to them etc. Sometimes the managers shake their heads when we leave at 13:00-13:30 on busy days, but let us do it as they know we'll seldom ever be signing the docket sheet for going over and they are aware some of us are fast. Plus the customers get their mail earlier.

You have proper start and finish times, why do you need to come in 1/2 hr early. This job will be knackered by people like you cos RM will look to not pay for meal reliefs in the future and people like you are doing it already, why not just do the job properly, do you use the proper tools or bag over the shoulder? are you also a runner?

Again you miss the point - if I go home early I am still being paid so am not giving up the paid meal relief, I'm just having it at home. Why is that so hard for people to grasp? As for the last point, I seldom use a trolley. If I did I'd never finish until half-one. I always use shoulder bags, sometimes two: one for mail one for packets if heavy. I have used a trolley sometimes if on a round with a slow git, because the time I lose with the trolley is far exceeded by the combined time I would spend waiting for the slow git after each loop if I didn't load as much continuous mail on the trolley as I can. This means I can finish my half an hour quicker than him/her and then go back in my car or have them drop me off and go back out to finish their half. I know that sounds bad to some, but like I said it is rare, as most people work at a decent pace and the managers tend to put the slows together.

[slave]

Come in early, work through break, finish early - lets face it, you're selfish , just like all the others that do the same. You might be lucky that your DOM accepts this situation, not all/very few do. Some ignore the early-idiots and see that two people are going out early and finishing early, which means more scope for lapsing/absorbing and more ammo againt those that choose to work PROPERLY.

Ooh; a fresh post to look at:
Busted, you're clueless you are going home early, paid or not, most RM managers are c***s that will see only that point, YOU ARE GOING HOME EARLY, they do not take into consideration starting early, not having break etc, clearly it is you that needs to grasp this concept. And I do believe RM expects you to have some meal relief during the day not the end of it. And what the f**k has your car go to do with anything, surely that's at the office and you're in a van?
"I seldom use a trolley" - are you not supposed to use one? Please do tell us which office you work in and we can drop you and your feckless DOM in the s**t?

[feduppostie]

do you not understand people you think 'slow' maybe are actually doing the job properly

for everyone that comes in early and races round with 2 bags instead of a trolley just so they can finish early


you are the problem, you are making it seem that a) others doing the job properly are slow/lazy giving management ammunition to bully them b) making the rounds seem to small because you finish early thus allowing for lapsing c) doing your office out of more full time contracts as all management see are people finishing early

wake up and smell the coffee FGS do the job properly and accept that you have to work the hours you are paid for - it might just save jobs!

[halfull]

Why would anyone be furious over absorption?
Who says you have to do it for free?

Deliveries is really simple.
You start on time.
You do an honest day's work using the tools provided.
You take a scheduled meal relief.
You finish on time or you get paid overtime.

easy for somebody who is strong enough to stand up to bullying managers, but the thought of being harassed & followed & having figures & tools thrown at them etc is just too much to cope with for many. So no deliveries is not really simple because if it was it wouldnt be the ONLY thing that cannot be agreed on with the talks! just think about it!

[fishtank]

If you're coming in early you're screwing with the indoor performance of the unit no matter what time you finish.
That means when it comes to a revision the starting point will be much higher than it should be and in all likelihood the revision will cost jobs and fall on its arse.
Stupid is as stupid does.

[bustedflush]

Come in early, work through break, finish early - lets face it, you're selfish , just like all the others that do the same. You might be lucky that your DOM accepts this situation, not all/very few do. Some ignore the early-idiots and see that two people are going out early and finishing early, which means more scope for lapsing/absorbing and more ammo againt those that choose to work PROPERLY.

Ooh; a fresh post to look at:
Busted, you're clueless you are going home early, paid or not, most RM managers are c***s that will see only that point, YOU ARE GOING HOME EARLY, they do not take into consideration starting early, not having break etc, clearly it is you that needs to grasp this concept. And I do believe RM expects you to have some meal relief during the day not the end of it. And what the f**k has your car go to do with anything, surely that's at the office and you're in a van?
"I seldom use a trolley" - are you not supposed to use one? Please do tell us which office you work in and we can drop you and your feckless DOM in the s**t?

Sorry this seems to be such an emotive topic. Obviously some offices are more flexible than others. Like I said, the MAJORITY try and finish early. Managers can tell what time you come in via the sign-in sheets. AFAIK there is no rule against not using trolleys. Yes, the rounds are timed according to them, but usually the pouches are under weight and can be carried safely. A round I did 2 weeks ago had 9 bags/loops for the driver and walker each. Split up so small it would be nonsensical to use a trolley to carry about 3 kgs. of post around! I use it on some rounds as they are split differently and I may do half the round at once, therefore except Tuesday needing the trolley. Like most in our office I only use the trolley if I have to. Many F/Timers split the loops to deliberately AVOID the bloody things. As for the car, you can take it out if your partner agrees, to travel to the round but obviously you can't deliver from or carry post in it. It simply means if working with a slow who keeps you waiting, you can complete and leave without unnecessary delay. When paired with certain people, reserves routinely ask for their own van if available, or ask to travel out in their car - if not they have on occasion refused to work with certain people - I have witnessed that several times in 14 months.
I'm only telling stuff here as I see it and am not trying to upset anybody. That is the world I have entered into and I simply go along with it. I DO see the logic of the replies I have had, but you need EVERYONE to go along with the work-to-time etc. and in the real world it simply doesn't happen - the few that DO do it in my place are in a noticeable minority.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

AFAIK there is no rule against not using trolleys. I have witnessed that several times in 14 months.

The ignorance is not your fault as you started after the Park and Loop style of delivery was agreed, and probably after it was implemented in your office. However, the DOM should be aware that

"The use of assigned equipment on the duty is MANDATORY"

as per

BT2010 - Delivery Methods Page 22 says

Once assigned the use of equipment specified for the route will be mandatory.

The agreement itself http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... -_2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[spiderj]

Dear bustedflush.......
Nope....can't think of anything to say.....your view amazes and saddens me

I walk into my office in the morning
Some days 3 or four of us part timers DONT start early unpaid

Some days its just ME

I always have some kind of break usually in the van or canteen if I'm ROTAD on an early start......this helps to avoid reactive hypoglycemia which occurs when your body expends more calories than have been put in...
I didn't always take my break and was a very grumpy man...
Now I always take it and eat well too...not grumpy anymore but advised management to send me to canteen with chocolate if they seethe rage building.

Start early when flexing by mutual agreement=adult+respect full of mutual needs
Start early for no pay=WTF
Claim docket as worked=payment for time given
Not claiming docket=false accounting from both sides
Hides the figures/workload and builds "situation creep"

Not having a go......just saying
Don't be a
Try to be

[cityfc]

AFAIK there is no rule against not using trolleys. I have witnessed that several times in 14 months.

The ignorance is not your fault as you started after the Park and Loop style of delivery was agreed, and probably after it was implemented in your office. However, the DOM should be aware that

"The use of assigned equipment on the duty is MANDATORY"

as per

BT2010 - Delivery Methods Page 22 says

Once assigned the use of equipment specified for the route will be mandatory.

The agreement itself http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... -_2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can also add to this not taking breaks,it is against working time regulations and is therefore illegal.

[jack]

You can also add to this not taking breaks,it is against working time regulations and is therefore illegal.

Quite true mate, there was an ET case a while back (cannot remember what the case was about) in the hearing Royal Mail accused a postie of jeopardising his health & safety by not taking his break.

Same as if something goes tits up through not using the correct equipment for the job, royal mail will use it against you.

[bustedflush]

AFAIK there is no rule against not using trolleys. I have witnessed that several times in 14 months.

The ignorance is not your fault as you started after the Park and Loop style of delivery was agreed, and probably after it was implemented in your office. However, the DOM should be aware that

"The use of assigned equipment on the duty is MANDATORY"

as per

BT2010 - Delivery Methods Page 22 says

Once assigned the use of equipment specified for the route will be mandatory.

The agreement itself http://www.cwu.org/assets/_files/docume ... -_2010.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for that, yes I did start after P&L. Having seen the rules, it's almost as if they are saying you can't EVER carry a pouch? If you told the posties that or tried to enforce it in our place, they'd almost all tell the managers where to go. The only way this would ever work is if they replaced the pouches with ones that ONLY had trolley-hooks and no shoulder straps.

[bustedflush]

Dear bustedflush.......
Nope....can't think of anything to say.....your view amazes and saddens me

I walk into my office in the morning
Some days 3 or four of us part timers DONT start early unpaid

Some days its just ME

I always have some kind of break usually in the van or canteen if I'm ROTAD on an early start......this helps to avoid reactive hypoglycemia which occurs when your body expends more calories than have been put in...
I didn't always take my break and was a very grumpy man...
Now I always take it and eat well too...not grumpy anymore but advised management to send me to canteen with chocolate if they seethe rage building.

Start early when flexing by mutual agreement=adult+respect full of mutual needs
Start early for no pay=WTF
Claim docket as worked=payment for time given
Not claiming docket=false accounting from both sides
Hides the figures/workload and builds "situation creep"

Not having a go......just saying
Don't be a
Try to be

If you expend more calories than are being put in, then you fuel yourself on stored fats. Good thing, no? Obviously if someone has sugar issues that's different. I don't usually eat between my start and finish times, but occasionally have an apple or tangerine with me and yes I do get a slight boost from the sugar if I have it over half-way through the walk. I have had docket before on a few jobs where we went over half an hour or so each day, I always got paid if I put it on the manager's sheet. The early start is only 25-30 minutes, and I say again it's not for nothing as if I save the early start off the end and more, I am quits or maybe under time. Despite what you may think, I would NOT work for nothing. The rep tells me it's a weekly 'swings and roundabouts' basis - if you are early back M/T then you wouldn't claim docket for being 30 mins. over on W. for example.
I'm also sure that despite the low opinion of managers on here (I agree as a couple of ours are sound and one is a complete wannabe bully) that they are aware certain combos of pairs can do a said round early while some combos would have to claim OT on it. Surely that would not make them generalize and make decisions that extend the work on that particular round as a result? If so, they would mess-up badly.

[bustedflush]

Dear bustedflush.......
Nope....can't think of anything to say.....your view amazes and saddens me

I walk into my office in the morning
Some days 3 or four of us part timers DONT start early unpaid

Some days its just ME

I always have some kind of break usually in the van or canteen if I'm ROTAD on an early start......this helps to avoid reactive hypoglycemia which occurs when your body expends more calories than have been put in...
I didn't always take my break and was a very grumpy man...
Now I always take it and eat well too...not grumpy anymore but advised management to send me to canteen with chocolate if they seethe rage building.

Start early when flexing by mutual agreement=adult+respect full of mutual needs
Start early for no pay=WTF
Claim docket as worked=payment for time given
Not claiming docket=false accounting from both sides
Hides the figures/workload and builds "situation creep"

Not having a go......just saying
Don't be a
Try to be

If you expend more calories than are being put in, then you fuel yourself on stored fats. Good thing, no? Obviously if someone has sugar issues that's different. I don't usually eat between my start and finish times, but occasionally have an apple or tangerine with me and yes I do get a slight boost from the sugar if I have it over half-way through the walk. I have had docket before on a few jobs where we went over half an hour or so each day, I always got paid if I put it on the manager's sheet. The early start is only 25-30 minutes, and I say again it's not for nothing as if I save the early start off the end and more, I am quits or maybe under time. Despite what you may think, I would NOT work for nothing. The rep tells me it's a weekly 'swings and roundabouts' basis - if you are early back M/T then you wouldn't claim docket for being 30 mins. over on W. for example.
I'm also sure that despite the low opinion of managers on here (I agree as a couple of ours are sound and one is a complete wannabe bully) that they are aware certain combos of pairs can do a said round early while some combos would have to claim OT on it. Surely that would not make them generalize and make decisions that extend the work on that particular round as a result? If so, they would mess-up badly.