No confidence in CWU negotiating team

[chrisj]

"Apart from deliveries, where I think as a union we have not done as well protecting these members, the union has kept our terms and conditions way above those of the general population." Sounds like I support delivery men in that quote.

Frankly keep this up and you deserve what you get.

- that is, Delivery Staff

Who said the above?

So we now have a pay rise of 2.8% (2.6%) and a guarantee of 3 years T&C (if you really believe that will be the case) and no outsourcing (you mean no obvious outsourcing). Result!

* I know there will be more, but just on those it is obvious delivery issues are nowhere near solved. But it is a result all the same for some - and we are all in it together - NOT!

[egor110]

So let's look at where we are at:
Just a couple of weeks ago (approx.) Rm were offering 3 years protection, now they are offering 5 years.
I think that was worth a few weeks wait.
Even if the union gain nothing more, they have done their job.
Do you really think we are going to get every thing we want?
I would like a 50% pay rise, 28 weeks holiday a year and a pension matching Moya's!
Instead it looks like a pay rise of around 2.8%, 5 years protection, no outsourcing.
Still looks like a good deal to me, if that is how it turns out.
I would also like to see postman protected.

This just shows how little you know about the issues on delivery.

Most dely posties want deliveries that are do-able in the hours there contracted to work, they don't want to be bullied into completing or not being paid overtime.

This issue i'd put alongside the 5 year protection and higher than the pay increase, and that would be the same for most dely posties, so saying oh well we've got a pay increase terms guaranteed for 5 years so lets just accept it and not worry about the tricky delivery methods is fine if your not actually on delivery.

[Straight4ward]

M

ost dely posties want deliveries that are do-able in the hours there contracted to work,

RM’s problem is that our workload is not distributed evenly throughout the year.
A delivery that will fill our 7 hours 48 minutes a day during the summer, will take us much longer during the busy times and off the scale during Christmas pressure.
Conversely, if they plan deliveries to busy times of the year then they end up paying us for lot of unworked hours during summer.

- - - and that is the bugger’s muddle that neither RM, the CWU, or us foot soldiers have ever been able to resolve.

[drb]

The issues with delivery are purely management,(or mismanagement). Let us start with delivery offices not in a revision,(or delivery methods):

Workload is not in sync with worktime. This meaning worktime hours are measured once the work get delivered to your ramp. The time on IPS is measured and the time on prep. Now if half the delivery office is coming in early and no meal relief then that time is not measured. Members are ready to leave the office at a time when they should not,but giving them a spam of delivery time in which is not accurate.

Here is the mismanagement bit,(and quite humerous)

Planners come in to the very same office to perform a delivery method revision:

Planners told to plan everything at the top efficiency rate(that is not planning by the way).
Planners told by senior management to get a high delivery span as the office is ready to go early,(for delivery). This is not planning. All this does is cut duties. Throw in the "new technology" of sequenced mail,(bear in mind that half theses machines have not been switched on..so much for modernising!). It is funny that theses machines where purchased on a stream of mail,(letters) in which are declining. Mismanagement.
Pre revision a level of absorption also dictates how many duties are to be cut. This is before the revision! On top of all this the unit manager says nothing because he is not allowed to.

So there is now a revision in this office. The line managers where never involved in any revision meeting and now have to take mail to deliver,in their cars and pouches on their back. By Friday,(after being "told" to bully by the DOM), the members who do not want overtime are now being counseled due to the aforementioned instruction by the DSM. Sick level goes through the roof and the pressure is now on our members. The sick duties are now being absorbed,( despite the model week agreed/or not). The cycle then continues over and over.

What is missing from the above are:

Unit rep then area rep then divisional rep,(if any unit rep)
Absence of registered disagreement
Request for ballot

Now if a request for a ballot has been denied then I can understand anger towards national officers. Perhaps requests for IR reviews? None to my knowledge.

[RTP]

The issues with delivery are purely management,(or mismanagement). Let us start with delivery offices not in a revision,(or delivery methods):

Workload is not in sync with worktime. This meaning worktime hours are measured once the work get delivered to your ramp. The time on IPS is measured and the time on prep. Now if half the delivery office is coming in early and no meal relief then that time is not measured. Members are ready to leave the office at a time when they should not,but giving them a spam of delivery time in which is not accurate.

Here is the mismanagement bit,(and quite humerous)

Planners come in to the very same office to perform a delivery method revision:

Planners told to plan everything at the top efficiency rate(that is not planning by the way).
Planners told by senior management to get a high delivery span as the office is ready to go early,(for delivery). This is not planning. All this does is cut duties. Throw in the "new technology" of sequenced mail,(bear in mind that half theses machines have not been switched on..so much for modernising!). It is funny that theses machines where purchased on a stream of mail,(letters) in which are declining. Mismanagement.
Pre revision a level of absorption also dictates how many duties are to be cut. This is before the revision! On top of all this the unit manager says nothing because he is not allowed to.

So there is now a revision in this office. The line managers where never involved in any revision meeting and now have to take mail to deliver,in their cars and pouches on their back. By Friday,(after being "told" to bully by the DOM), the members who do not want overtime are now being counseled due to the aforementioned instruction by the DSM. Sick level goes through the roof and the pressure is now on our members. The sick duties are now being absorbed,( despite the model week agreed/or not). The cycle then continues over and over.

What is missing from the above are:

Unit rep then area rep then divisional rep,(if any unit rep)
Absence of registered disagreement
Request for ballot

Now if a request for a ballot has been denied then I can understand anger towards national officers. Perhaps requests for IR reviews? None to my knowledge.

At the end of the day a happy workforce is a productive workforce.
Setting unrealistic targets is bad for the workforce, bad for the customer, bad for the company and is unprofessional.
The union can get the best agreements in the world and register as many disagreements as there are grains of sands in the Sahara desert, but if they're ignored then the workforce suffers, the customer suffers and the company suffers.

[Edward Hunter]

Two good posts there drb +RTP. The fluctuating volumes of mail on any given day certainly make it hard to both give the delivery postie a "fair and manageable workload" whilst getting them to work all our hours. Personally i think these massive delivery spans need to be rectified, eventually it will cause huge levels of sickness for the company, because the body can only take so much punishment in the long term.There needs to be a way off reducing outdoor time. My suggestion would be to get full timers to prep more than one walk. OK this would require more pt staff/overtime than many would like but if this was introduced through natural wastage i wouldnt oppose it.And maybe eventually free up some extra leave slots? By doing this deliveries could remain at an acceptable timespan.Feel free to pull my theory to pieces.

[drb]

Evening Edward,

Why not have your theory? Why does the employer hate us so much? Do they think we like failing mail? From my perspective I hate letting the public down,especially their collections/deliveries. If a mix of part time/full time suits your office then so be it. However if an office wants more leave but more full time,then an acheivable span,(or shorter) will give those opportunities.

Now some offices do have 9 hour plus days in which is predominantly full time. This would give an extra week off with overtime in that time should they want this. Now for those with a 8 hour day,why not choose the "extra Saturdays" off in the menu of options? More Saturday staff but you could mix and match those with SA and Saturday only contracts. Now in terms of Mon -Fri you will find that the saturday contracts work in the week on O\T,hence freeing up the annual leave slots.

However the employer knows these options and for some reason,they send a clueless DOM to our offices who get told that "No Saturdays,No extra leave or we absorb it and that goes for sick leave too". What ever happened to a manager managing his own unit as he sees fit? All national agreements in the last 20 years have stated "local". So what happened?

Let's see what has been agreed after the PEC have OK'd it. Us in deliveries know the know. We know it is an awful place to be at present.Putting out fires is a phrase that would be best served in this function. We cannot carry on in this way.

I would welcome all posters,(potential),to start posting on the forum.Don't be afraid of those that do not know what exactly they want. I promise you,they do not even know! There are plenty of people,good people,who will advise.Also there is a great download section here. Come on in,(and wipe your feet!).

[Martin Walsh]

The issue of viable workload is a real issue. Royal Mail want to trial seasonal and annualised hours.

The issue with absorption is that the national agreement Bob Gibson got with Rob Jenson is that you can only absorb if workload is down on your model week and the EP you agreed on your revision is reduced. The problem is that Royal Mail get away in lost of offices of attempting to introduce absorption by increasing the EP agreed on the revision under the guise of continuous improvement.

[fishtank]

Royal Mail want to trial seasonal and annualised hours.

Why would the members agree to that?
Offices that have agreed low model traffic weeks would have the worst of both worlds.

[chrisj]

anything to do with hours will no favour delivery posties as we do not work to contracted hours... this certainly should be introduced with a clocking system and people being made to work their contracted hours so a true picture can be achieved.

we all know what usually happens after a successful trial in a controlled RM favourable environment/scenarios.

there will be even more shafting ahead...

[mickeymacca]

Royal Mail want to trial seasonal and annualised hours.

Why would the members agree to that?
Offices that have agreed low model traffic weeks would have the worst of both worlds.

I think our holidays our now shown in hours rather than days off, maybe a precursor to annualised hours? I certainly hope not?

[dvbuk55]

I think it is pretty obvious the Management and top management look at this site,and all they see is union bashing,its no wonder there is no agreement,all they have to do is sit back and wait until after Christmas and then we have no bargaining tool and we will get less than whats on offer now

Glad your not on the team doing a deal.

I would have been out at the very beginning

And you would have been correct. It's not the members who are delaying it's the union and for why? We are no closer now than we were before bar a few paltry obviously "hard won concessions" - this is being dragged out. We should have gone to the members with a ballot instead of the consultative crap - what did that achieve? I mean who was going to vote NO? The 90% yes vote certainly didn't translate into the same overwhelming vote for IA.

[dvbuk55]

Royal Mail want to trial seasonal and annualised hours.

Why would the members agree to that?
Offices that have agreed low model traffic weeks would have the worst of both worlds.

I do not like the look of that at all and if the negotiators are looking to agree to that as a bargaining chip we are in deep crap. Remember the Durham scenario trials............everything was perfect........then it went national and berserk. We in deliveries do not want seasonal and annualised hours for a number of reasons.

[fishtank]

We in deliveries do not want seasonal and annualised hours for a number of reasons.

I think some areas with high model weeks might...rather than very high levels of absorption and having to actually work their paid hours.
Think about it...nothing really changes for them,they still go home early,they still keep their high FT ratios without having to absorb all that the indoor work and take on part-timers.
Only the offices with low model weeks and lots of part-timers relying on extra hours get screwed...again.
I'm starting to smell a rat.

[dvbuk55]

We in deliveries do not want seasonal and annualised hours for a number of reasons.

I think some areas with high model weeks might...rather than very high levels of absorption and having to actually work their paid hours.
Think about it...nothing really changes for them,they still go home early,they still keep their high FT ratios without having to absorb all that the indoor work and take on part-timers.
Only the offices with low model weeks and lots of part-timers relying on extra hours get screwed...again.
I'm starting to smell a rat.

The problem is that you would probably have to go a long way to find two offices that have the same delivery model. Numerical, geographical, ft/pt ratio, what we should be looking for is a standardised working pattern in some shape or form than can be adapted to ALL delivery offices. Perhaps a clocking on system is not such a bad idea because the current signing in out system is a load of codswallop - the other day a guy signed for his vehicle at 0900 and signed it back at 1400 at the same time I can't wait to see what "ground breaking" deal is going to be put to the members next week - either way it's a NO from me.