LTB:National Dispute Official Update

[drb]

Deliveries itself may be renationalisation too? Either way we need an agreement.....

[hubbahubba]

From what Dingo says the only sticking point is on the delivery side of things.Problem is,that's the bulk of the members.

This is what I think may happen in a weeks time....

All the above points will be resolved,EXCEPT the delivery side of things,and on that point the CWU and RM will say they will have ongoing talks to resolve DO issues (B&H,workloads etc).

This deal will be put to the members,but with a lump sum £300ish maybe,and backdated pay.

The deal will be accepted by the same shortsighted posties who come in early,run round,use their own cars,prep d2d in their own time(you know the ones)

The problem is the ideals of a union are lost on these types of people,who are only concerned with themselves....

I hope I am wrong,but you can see it coming...

[pop it in pete]

A part time flexible workforce is one that is not only difficult to manage but is also one that is difficult to organise from a union perspective. As we move closer and closer to a fragmented possibly franchised industry our union is playing with fire if it thinks:
1. a deal can be done without settling delivery issues whilst retaining delivery membership levels
2. a strike over Christmas will be supported when m any didn't even bother to vote at all. Stuck between a rock and a hard place comes to mind.

[Judgee]

From what Dingo says the only sticking point is on the delivery side of things.Problem is,that's the bulk of the members.

This is what I think may happen in a weeks time....

All the above points will be resolved,EXCEPT the delivery side of things,and on that point the CWU and RM will say they will have ongoing talks to resolve DO issues (B&H,workloads etc).

This deal will be put to the members,but with a lump sum £300ish maybe,and backdated pay.

The deal will be accepted by the same shortsighted posties who come in early,run round,use their own cars,prep d2d in their own time(you know the ones)

The problem is the ideals of a union are lost on these types of people,who are only concerned with themselves....

I hope I am wrong,but you can see it coming...

Yup I think you are spot on there Hubba.

[pants123]

HI DINGO,

do you know if we are getting the back pay from 1 st April,

thanking you kindly..

[drb]

I find it very difficult to get an agreement on ways of working in which have no "policing". Local management have not been trained on delivery methods,so they bully. Our members have planned their lives in their duty and local management know this. Local management get bullied by "someone" remote controlling their office by "someone" in senior management. The list goes on. Only WE can stop this. Yes it will lead to confrontation in the workplace.Hence an agreement is needed.
We can talk about past agreements,and the wrong and the right of them. But times are changing. Last years model week on traffic bears no resemblance to this years. However it appears that the business want this change without us,and that is the whole point.

[Martin Walsh]

It is a bizarre discussion , Royal Mail have made a number of concessions and do not want a dispute before or after christmas. Why have they conceded on the legal guarantees , the strings , the pensions , the pay , the acceptance there will never be a strike deal if they wanted a strike. They will move on deliveries as well.

Equally Royal Mail cannot string the talks on we have to take strike action to keep the ballot live before the end of November.

Lets be clear there are 95 000 people who are deliveries from the 115000 who were balloted. Thats 82% now nothing will be voted in unless it gets the backing of the delivery membership who vote.

If we were looking at selling out deliveries we would have not applied the 7 day extension as we would have done the deal based on the agreements we made on all the other issues.

I met a group of members this morning and when I explained the situation they were happy with the progress and willing to give the union a further 7 days.

[dvbuk55]

So progress we got during talks.

6. We have made some progress on delivery but nowhere near enough and now both Dave Ward and Mark Higson will now enter the delivery negotiations along with Bob Gibson and Mark Fellows to get an agreement.

Now some of you based on this progress now want to throw away all the progress made in points 1 to 5 by calling a strike action to resolve point 6.

Where as the sensible thing and what the majority members would want is too see whether we get an agreement in the next few days on all issues and dont throw away the progress we have made on pay and legal guarantees.

In the words of a famous song writer lets give peace a chance.

So what exactly has Dave Ward been doing - are you telling us neither he nor Higson have actually been involved in the talks yet.......despite previous delays!
Do you know why the majority of posters want action dingo because they ARE delivery and they are the ones who have been paying the price for the last shambles and here we are stuck on the very crux of the agreement. Do the CWU negotiators have any idea how bad the situation is and here's you shrugging it off like it's a nothing part of what the negotiation is about. Do you really think that money is the driving force, even the pension which at the rate of this set of negotiators for deliveries most will be lucky to live to see a pension, or is that the reason for the "ground breaking" shovel.

[dvbuk55]

It is a bizarre discussion , Royal Mail have made a number of concessions and do not want a dispute before or after christmas. Why have they conceded on the legal guarantees , the strings , the pensions , the pay , the acceptance there will never be a strike deal if they wanted a strike. They will move on deliveries as well.

Equally Royal Mail cannot string the talks on we have to take strike action to keep the ballot live before the end of November.

Lets be clear there are 95 000 people who are deliveries from the 115000 who were balloted. Thats 82% now nothing will be voted in unless it gets the backing of the delivery membership who vote.

If we were looking at selling out deliveries we would have not applied the 7 day extension as we would have done the deal based on the agreements we made on all the other issues.

I met a group of members this morning and when I explained the situation they were happy with the progress and willing to give the union a further 7 days.

Great for that group of members - how about asking the other 114, 995 paying members before they'd pulled the plug?

[cloherty1976]

The problem isn't this deal or these negotiations.
This is one dispute and one agreement and unless it's a magic agreement that means no more confrontation then at some point we'll be involved in another dispute and the problem with talking the talk constantly and refusing to walk the walk is that at some point someone will call you out as full of s**t.

There will definitely be an agreement within the next 7 days but not because Royal Mail has any fear of Industrial Action,There will be an agreement because the negotiators have backed themselves into a corner and have no choice but to take what's on offer and try to spin it as best they can.That fact won't be lost on the Royal Mail team.

Financially it will be a good deal,that was always guaranteed,how watertight the protections will be only time will tell because it's very much uncharted territory for both parties but deliveries....don't expect much more than wooly words and false promises and you won't be too disappointed.

Absolutely brilliant said it all along. Just don't know why it takes so long.

[fishtank]

It is a bizarre discussion , Royal Mail have made a number of concessions and do not want a dispute before or after christmas. Why have they conceded on the legal guarantees , the strings , the pensions , the pay , the acceptance there will never be a strike deal if they wanted a strike..

As far as I'm aware they conceded those points prior to the calling off of the November 4th strike,while the threat of strike action was real and immediate.
What have they conceded since the threat of strike action was removed?
Not much by the looks of it,does that not tell you something?

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk you obviously did not read my post yesterday.

There are different negotiations , Dave deals with pay , pensions , legal guarantees , charter and the industrial stability.

Terry Pullinger and his team deal with Network , RDCs and Mail Centres.

Ray Ellis deals with Pensions and engineers

Bob Gibson and his team deal with the delivery issues.


For the record Billy has not been in the talks.

Royal Mail have a different team for workplace issues and are headed up by Mike Newby and Peter Walls for the Pay and other issues. Moya has been involved as well.

Dave will join the delivery talks from Friday and so will Mark Higson.

[jack]

No doubt Moya will be sitting in her ivory tower safe in the knowledge that her battle is nearly won..

[Godric]

It really is funny that now you have lots of people who were previously shaky on a strike suddenly giving it the big one and calling a seven day extension.

Do you really think our negotiators would have agreed to a further 7 day extension if there is not a very good prospect of a deal. Yes still work to be done but the union confident of a ground breaking deal.

The membership voted in an industrial action ballot that they are prepared to take industrial action in defence of they pay, pensions , terms and conditions and job security.

Now the CWU are confident of getting an agreement which will be subject to an individuals members ballot without any member losing a seconds worth of pay. Yet most of the posters want to go out cause it looks good or feels good ? Its about getting the right agreement not letting of steam.

I have been out plenty of times but the aim has alway been to get a deal. Some of you need to have a little bit more faith and surely you can wait 7 days.

I think you will find I have been consistent with my opinions so I hope this was not aimed at me

[Godric]

Dvbuk you obviously did not read my post yesterday.

There are different negotiations , Dave deals with pay , pensions , legal guarantees , charter and the industrial stability.

Terry Pullinger and his team deal with Network , RDCs and Mail Centres.

Ray Ellis deals with Pensions and engineers

Bob Gibson and his team deal with the delivery issues.


For the record Billy has not been in the talks.

Royal Mail have a different team for workplace issues and are headed up by Mike Newby and Peter Walls for the Pay and other issues. Moya has been involved as well.

Dave will join the delivery talks from Friday and so will Mark Higson.

that will be the same mark higson that said we only delivered 8 packets each when I was delivering at least 6 or 7 times that amount .... him and Gibson don't know sweet FA about doing a delivery ... when was Gibson last out on a delivery ??