20 mins break?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

ghost overtime is not fraud if its agreed to by the DOM

Well it's certainly a practice that's against business policy so you could question whether a manager actually has the authority to agree it..

I think there was a manager sacked recently in one of the MCs for paying people for overtime they didn't work....he was allegedly taking a cut of the proceeds I think but I would imagine it would be enough for Royal Mail to know they were paying good money for nothing to throw a few P45s around and where the money actually ended up would be a minor technicality.

not disagreeing with you fishtank, i only said it wasnt fraud. definitely wrong, but in general in a DO if a manager is struggling to cover a walk and postie knows it will take three hours and says to dom who cannot get anyone else to cover it and says pay me 5 hours and ill do it as soon as i finish my round if manager agrees to that then its a management issue and postie has done absolutely nothing wrong

[chrisj]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_practices" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Royal Mail got a special mention - bravo

[k979aaa]

Was told by my union rep you have to take it before you go out but they the management cannot tell you when to take it before then so that is the answer as to further reference the "Way Forward Agreement"

management can tell you when to take your breaks before you go out or after or split, they just cant tell you where to take them, they also cant discriminate ie by saying everyone who cuts off must take it at set time but if you dont cut off take it when you want, also if its a single break and your attendance is over 6 hours they cannot tell you to take it at joined to the start or end of your shift

Wrong you must take half your break or lose it before you leave the office. here is the agreement http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... php?id=269" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so where does it state that in the agreement?

in fact the agreement does not state that anywhere you are making it up

Section 5 in the meal breaks paragraph Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Was told by my union rep you have to take it before you go out but they the management cannot tell you when to take it before then so that is the answer as to further reference the "Way Forward Agreement"

management can tell you when to take your breaks before you go out or after or split, they just cant tell you where to take them, they also cant discriminate ie by saying everyone who cuts off must take it at set time but if you dont cut off take it when you want, also if its a single break and your attendance is over 6 hours they cannot tell you to take it at joined to the start or end of your shift

Wrong you must take half your break or lose it before you leave the office. here is the agreement http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... php?id=269" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so where does it state that in the agreement?

in fact the agreement does not state that anywhere you are making it up

Section 5 in the meal breaks paragraph Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

sorry that still does not prove your point, you stated you have to take half before you go out or lose it, at no point does it state that in the agreement your wrong

[k979aaa]

Was told by my union rep you have to take it before you go out but they the management cannot tell you when to take it before then so that is the answer as to further reference the "Way Forward Agreement"

management can tell you when to take your breaks before you go out or after or split, they just cant tell you where to take them, they also cant discriminate ie by saying everyone who cuts off must take it at set time but if you dont cut off take it when you want, also if its a single break and your attendance is over 6 hours they cannot tell you to take it at joined to the start or end of your shift

Wrong you must take half your break or lose it before you leave the office. here is the agreement http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... php?id=269" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so where does it state that in the agreement?

in fact the agreement does not state that anywhere you are making it up

Section 5 in the meal breaks paragraph Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

sorry that still does not prove your point, you stated you have to take it before you go out, at no point does it state that in the agreement your wrong

So your logic is you can take it anytime you want how do you prove it? normally I inform my manager as when I go for my break (meal relief) so how do you go about that when they catch you having another (break) I would think your case for an argument is drying up fast!

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Was told by my union rep you have to take it before you go out but they the management cannot tell you when to take it before then so that is the answer as to further reference the "Way Forward Agreement"

management can tell you when to take your breaks before you go out or after or split, they just cant tell you where to take them, they also cant discriminate ie by saying everyone who cuts off must take it at set time but if you dont cut off take it when you want, also if its a single break and your attendance is over 6 hours they cannot tell you to take it at joined to the start or end of your shift

Wrong you must take half your break or lose it before you leave the office. here is the agreement http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... php?id=269" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so where does it state that in the agreement?

in fact the agreement does not state that anywhere you are making it up

Section 5 in the meal breaks paragraph Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

sorry that still does not prove your point, you stated you have to take it before you go out, at no point does it state that in the agreement your wrong

So your logic is you can take it anytime you want how do you prove it? normally I inform my manager as when I go for my break (meal relief) so how do you go about that when they catch you having another (break) I would think your case for an argument is drying up fast!

sorry your the one who is saying you need to take part of your break before you go out or lose it and saying that that is stated in the way forward agreement, that is what i am saying is completely bollocks and being made up by you

my argument is that management can schedule your break at any time, either in one block or split and can tell you at what time to take it, as long as they are not discriminating or forcing you to take it at start or end of shift if its a single attendance over 6 hours

[k979aaa]

Management cannot tell you when to have your meal relief you need a break equidistant to your start time and finish time in your duty as so you can complete the task you need to do. You cannot be told to take it 2 hours after you started work tell them to get lost all walk out I would if they did that to me!

[clashcityrocker]

Management cannot tell you when to have your meal relief !

Yes they can.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Management cannot tell you when to have your meal relief you need a break equidistant to your start time and finish time in your duty as so you can complete the task you need to do. You cannot be told to take it 2 hours after you started work tell them to get lost all walk out I would if they did that to me!

but your still making things up and saying that you will lose half your break if you dont take it before you leave the office, thats bollocks and not supported by the way forward agreement as you claim

now your making up that you cannot be told to to take the break after 2 hours, again this is a completely unsupported comment, management can schedule your breaks, if they have not in the past they simply need to give you notice that they are going to start doing it

[fishtank]

Management cannot tell you when to have your meal relief !

Yes they can.

Within certain legal parameters.

[scirocco'r']

If you are a part timer on a 5 hour daily attendance contract, you are entitled to a 30 minute break.
Breaks should be scheduled as close to the middle of your attendance as possible.
The document referred to says that a 30 minute break should be taken as a single break and that a single break cannot be taken at the end of your duty.
How does this work operationally ?
Does this result in part timers being bullied by managers and colleagues alike ?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

If you are a part timer on a 5 hour daily attendance contract, you are entitled to a 30 minute break.
Breaks should be scheduled as close to the middle of your attendance as possible.

That part is incorrect, no where does it state the break should be as close to the middle of your attendance as possible

The document referred to says that a 30 minute break should be taken as a single break and that a single break cannot be taken at the end of your duty.
How does this work operationally ?
Does this result in part timers being bullied by managers and colleagues alike ?

operationally take it when your manager wants you to, as long as its not at the start or the end it complies with the way forward agreement

[Glenno]

Here you go C&Pasted direct from Way Forward


Meal Brakes for non-standard, as part-time and extended attendances

Part-time jobs, and full-time jobs with non-standard attendance patterns, will attract meal breaks for each daily attendance as followed, reflecting a generally pro-rata entitlement to the national weekly standard:

Attendance length total breaks probable pattern

Less than 2 hours 30 minutes none (a 10 min grace break should be provided if work permits)
2 hours 30 to 3 hours 10 mins 10
3 hours 1 to 3 hours 30 15 mins 15
3 hours 31 to 4 hours 59 20 mins 20
5 hours to 7 hours 30 mins 30
7 hours 1 to 8 hours 59 40 mins 40 or 20 + 20
9 hours to 10 hours 59 50 mins 30 + 20
11 hours to 12 hours 59 60 mins 40 + 20 or 30 + 30
13 hours or longer 70 mins 40 + 30

Pending completion of the discussions intended to conform with the requirements of the Working Time Regulations, any exceptional attendances of 15 hours or longer will attract an entitlement of 80 minutes.

The actual pattern of breaks within these rules will be agreed locally.

The way it works in our D/O is that for F/T.. 40mins break can be broken down to 20/20, that said if you do not take the first 20 before delivery you lose it (pro-rata of course)

[POSTMAN]

Isn't the crux of this,when you have a revision even as far back as SDD and P&M,the breaks are factored in,it's in the work plan,and any mass/little change has to be renegotiated?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Isn't the crux of this,when you have a revision even as far back as SDD and P&M,the breaks are factored in,it's in the work plan,and any mass/little change has to be renegotiated?

yes it does have to be negotiated, but its never a case of take some indoors before you go out or you lose it, also you would need to come up with a valid reason for rejecting any changes that management put forward