Another change to attendance times

[Mezza]

Many, many thank's for the reply.
I've passed the info on and hopefully we can get this back on the correct procedure.

Will update.

[Mezza]

Can someone tell me the correct procedure for contacting Union HQ for advice?

As mentioned our local rep is inexperienced with all this and our Area rep appears to be mis-informing us.


Hopefully it doesn't have to be in writing as time is against us.

[bogstandard]

Tell your rep to phone HQ and ask for the outdoor department.
Give however they put you through to a brief outline of what's going on and tell them you know this is wrong. Tell them the area rep suggested a grievance but that he/she cannot see how this is of benefit
On the other matter your area rep should be able to pull this all together as the initial disagreement is about attendance time changes.
This is what your DOM is trying to do now, change your attendance times.

[Mezza]

Thank's for the reply,

Unfortunately as mentioned, it would be far easier to leave our local and area rep out of this all together.
The mis-information and advice has done us no good so far and we don't want to complicate matters any further.
It would be far easier for us to contact HQ directly and if nothing else at least we would know we are getting the correct information.

Apparently the changes to our duties that are being proposed are in direct relation to the Indoor Duty Builder.

It's been used to plan our revised duties although at the moment we haven't seen exactly what it's come up with (this is being asked for today and on my return to work tomorrow). From my very little knowledge i assume this takes all the data from arrivals, daily workloads etc and comes up with a structure to each of the indoor duties somehow.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Thank's for the reply,

Unfortunately as mentioned, it would be far easier to leave our local and area rep out of this all together.
The mis-information and advice has done us no good so far and we don't want to complicate matters any further.
It would be far easier for us to contact HQ directly and if nothing else at least we would know we are getting the correct information.

Apparently the changes to our duties that are being proposed are in direct relation to the Indoor Duty Builder.

It's been used to plan our revised duties although at the moment we haven't seen exactly what it's come up with (this is being asked for today and on my return to work tomorrow). From my very little knowledge i assume this takes all the data from arrivals, daily workloads etc and comes up with a structure to each of the indoor duties somehow.

if its part of the revision then they may have a case for moving start times unfortunately, it wont just be as simple as saying we dont want to move then, you will need to get a hold of that information in the indoor duty builder and find out whats going to affect your start times and see if there is scope for disagreement

one thing though, if they are only at planning stage for new duties, you should not be changing anything until the whole revision goes live

[Mezza]

And therein lies our problem it would seem.

Our office has had it's revision.
The indoor staff were interviewed with regard duty times and they were mutually agreed.
Now some 3 months later they want to change them apparently because the duty builder has said so.
Obviously i need to see exactly what it has planned for my duty in the RLE (which i will make a prority tomorrow when i return to work).

Whilst we fully accept the impact on our duties the revision has had, we cannot understand how sections of the 2010 agreement are now completely disregarded as it's all part of the revision.
Surely if the agreement states that where possible staff may be able to work a 1 in 4 rotate unless it impacts service, quality etc and we we're already doing that there can be no change?
Even our beloved leader Moyra's letter the other month stated that existing agreements would be adhered to.

We know we're unlikely to win this argument, small cogs in a big wheel and all that. But our whole argument at the start was that if they can change things like this and ignore previous agreements, then they will change things as and when they want........3 months later that's exactly what they are doing and it is bound to get worse as they realise we can do nothing !

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

What you need to find out is what the duty builder said at the time of the revision and why its changed now,

also if its not changed why they never implemented it at the time of the revision

from what youve said i think you have a good case for the 1 in 4 saturdays, but not as good a case for the new start times(though still a case just not as good as the other one)

[bogstandard]

Bo**ox to the duty builder, your office has already agreed and commenced the new duties and start times now RM want to move the goalposts because computer says nooo.
As was previously mentioned what's changed ????
If they can't operate a computer competently then that is RM's fault.
Again as has been mentioned earlier, we cannot just reject proposals out of hand because we don't like them we MUST give a reason, so therefore if the duties require changing, why?
why wasn't this done properly in the first place?
how was the error detected?
and by who?
why were you not involved immediately the problem was discovered?

some of the questions i'd be asking.