First and only point of delivery when getting a signature

[music4essex]

Where is a first point of delivery for a signature ?

1 Letterbox on the door Bell and intercomm on the wall

You ring the bell and intercomm no answer, so you leave a docket.

The customer complains that you should have rang the bell , my reply is it does not work nor the intercomm by your collegue who told me.

He then complained to customer services saying I should walk up the flight of stairs along corridor?
manager says you should do?

I said it is only the first point of delivery that I attend and maybe the customer should get his bell/intercomm to work?

There are 12 flights of steps and walk along a corridor through office doors to get a signature .

Who is right and is there something in writing as i am sure I read it on here it was only first point of delivery

Thanks Essex mum

[PhilthyPhil]

From SOP 170 Deliver Mail:

Multi-occupied buildings
If the item is too large or requires a signature, where there are banks of boxes and a means of contacting customers from the designated delivery point such as: doorbells or intercoms for individual residences. We will attempt to contact the recipient - where this is not possible a P739/DTN procedures will be followed.

For controlled entry systems or time locks endorse items "controlled entry system - unable to gain access" along with the time and date. These items must be brought to the attention of the line manager. Attempts to deliver all (where applicable) mail must continue to be made to the address until delivery is suspended.

[chrisj]

You might not like my answer...

Unfortunately, now that you are aware that the bell/intercom does not work and that the customer wants you to walk round... then you will have to walk through the offices and the long way round.

It is a pity but with this sort of thing and with businesses or offices, you do get inconvenienced sometimes with their demands.

Manager says do it then do it - no point arguing - customer will always be right in this case. If it wastes your time then deal with that issue, separately.

[justdeno]

You might not like my answer...

Unfortunately, now that you are aware that the bell/intercom does not work and that the customer wants you to walk round... then you will have to walk through the offices and the long way round.

It is a pity but with this sort of thing and with businesses or offices, you do get inconvenienced sometimes with their demands.

Manager says do it then do it - no point arguing - customer will always be right in this case. If it wastes your time then deal with that issue, separately.

The sender is the customer, as RM now say. So the receiver is not the customer. Tell your manager this.

[chrisj]

It is just being pedantic saying that the sender is the customer. What we all know that the people receiving the mail are the ones we deal with - they are our direct customers.

The sender might be the clientele... But either way, without the recipient we might has well have collection boxes for everyone like they have in some parts of the continent.

The idea that you can be accused of stealing by walking through some offices or by being in someone's porch is taking things too far - we are trusted; and most of us are trustworthy.

I do not understand the argument. It is your job to deliver and we should try our best to deliver instead of using P739; especially when the receiver is waiting for the mail. What happens if the receiver removes the outside letterbox thereby forcing the postie to make the walk anyway?

[Lincox]

I would require written authorised consent to walk through business offices. Without it you may not be covered by their liability insurance.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

It is just being pedantic saying that the sender is the customer. What we all know that the people receiving the mail are the ones we deal with - they are our direct customers.

The sender might be the clientele... But either way, without the recipient we might has well have collection boxes for everyone like they have in some parts of the continent.

The idea that you can be accused of stealing by walking through some offices or by being in someone's porch is taking things too far - we are trusted; and most of us are trustworthy.

I do not understand the argument. It is your job to deliver and we should try our best to deliver instead of using P739; especially when the receiver is waiting for the mail. What happens if the receiver removes the outside letterbox thereby forcing the postie to make the walk anyway?

From SOP 170 Deliver Mail:

Multi-occupied buildings
If the item is too large or requires a signature, where there are banks of boxes and a means of contacting customers from the designated delivery point such as: doorbells or intercoms for individual residences. We will attempt to contact the recipient - where this is not possible a P739/DTN procedures will be followed.

This is a direct instruction, as posted by Phil, so it would be a personal risk the postie is taking in regards to H&S.

Also if this is a HCT duty or a LWT loop, then security of the other mail also needs to be considered.

If its a pouch loop, and the designated point changes then yes the Postie would need to walk to them, if you do now without direction from management then you are liable for any consequences, both security and H&S related.

[chrisj]

From SOP 170 Deliver Mail:

Multi-occupied buildings
If the item is too large or requires a signature, where there are banks of boxes and a means of contacting customers from the designated delivery point such as: doorbells or intercoms for individual residences. We will attempt to contact the recipient - where this is not possible a P739/DTN procedures will be followed.

This is a direct instruction, as posted by Phil, so it would be a personal risk the postie is taking in regards to H&S.

Also if this is a HCT duty or a LWT loop, then security of the other mail also needs to be considered.

If its a pouch loop, and the designated point changes then yes the Postie would need to walk to them, if you do now without direction from management then you are liable for any consequences, both security and H&S related.

TBT - I think you should look at the point in italics: the bell or intercom not working means there is no means of contacting the customer. Furthermore, the manager says that this postman should deliver - so what else?

I can understand the HCT and LWT issue - I have that every week but I try to be polite to customer who thinks we should be running up the stairs or looking from them all over a building. I just insist that I do not want to leave other people's mail unsecured and how would they feel if it were their mail... I can also use the H&S angle but one always sounds like a sissy saying that.

However, as a floater/reserve; it does not help when walkholders do favours for customers or don't follow the rules. Xmas tips, per chance?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

But if the bell or intercom is not working that not the posties responsibility - its the residents.

However If the manager instructs the postie to deliver to the door then they must do so.

But has the manager actually investigated the matter and taken due regard to H&S and security, or have they just made a decision based on no knowledge of the delivery, delivery point or delivery method.

[chrisj]

i do not want to argue or sound unfeeling.

However, it is just hard to say that the customer's bell is not working then they get no mail or that they have a set of stairs and we are not going up because of H&S.

The truth is that we do deliver to some awkward places - bell or no bell and we do go up stairs when we have to go. The fact that this customer has a bell not working or that he has an outside letterbox is neither here or there. Some of them do not have outside letterboxes and we have to go up to the property or to the offices...

It is just the sort of story that the Daily Mail or Telegraph will love to beat us on the head with. Business's letters are not being delivered because Postman refuses to go up a flight of stairs or postman refuses to walk up to customer's* office. TNT will love that!

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

From SOP 170 Deliver Mail:

Multi-occupied buildings
If the item is too large or requires a signature, where there are banks of boxes and a means of contacting customers from the designated delivery point such as: doorbells or intercoms for individual residences. We will attempt to contact the recipient - where this is not possible a P739/DTN procedures will be followed.

This is a direct instruction, as posted by Phil, so it would be a personal risk the postie is taking in regards to H&S.

Also if this is a HCT duty or a LWT loop, then security of the other mail also needs to be considered.

If its a pouch loop, and the designated point changes then yes the Postie would need to walk to them, if you do now without direction from management then you are liable for any consequences, both security and H&S related.

TBT - I think you should look at the point in italics: the bell or intercom not working means there is no means of contacting the customer. Furthermore, the manager says that this postman should deliver - so what else?

I can understand the HCT and LWT issue - I have that every week but I try to be polite to customer who thinks we should be running up the stairs or looking from them all over a building. I just insist that I do not want to leave other people's mail unsecured and how would they feel if it were their mail... I can also use the H&S angle but one always sounds like a sissy saying that.

However, as a floater/reserve; it does not help when walkholders do favours for customers or don't follow the rules. Xmas tips, per chance?

chrisj if you look just after the point you highlighted in italics it then goes on to say "where this is not possible a P739/DTN procedures will be followed" so if the intercom is not working and as such not possible to contact the customer through it, a p739 should be left

[chrisj]

Ok, interpretation! I was trying to be specific to this particular case - and the fact that it is a business rather than a block of flats.

If I get a gated property (which I do sometimes) and the bell is or intercom is not working (I know it is not working - customer and walk holder has told me). If the small gate is open, I do try to go up to the property to get a signature or deliver packets.

If it is a block of flats, of course, I will use the P739 because you simply cannot contact the customer.

However, in this case the customer has complained and the manager has agreed to deliver.

[music4essex]

Chris , Firstly the manager had no idea where the delivery is or what sort of area, IE industrial units,

If I fell down or up the steps who would be responsible , RM would wash there hands , they are always stating at the end we make the decisions for our Health & Safety, my decision is not to walk up the stairs and along the corridor.
It is the persons recieving the item that is being pedantic. what was funny though customers service did not even get the right address, maybe I should go to the address that was quoted and post there mail there at least it has no stairs

BTW as far as I am aware the bell did work the week before as it lit up

The front door has a letterbox, letters in, No answer then for packets or signed for, p739 , You dont pull a door open , What happens if a dog was behind it

If RM was more caring for there customers and not hell bent on pushing too much on duties for bonuses I may just have a second thought , but I dont, and I still stand by the H/S issue like TBT mentioned

BTW thanks for the comments

Essex mum having a bit stronger a nice cider with berries

[chrisj]

But we do walk up stairs and along corridors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id3sfhA3wOM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is up to you!

[janitor]

I had a multi occupancy office block with 11 different business's in, if I had signatures required I used the intercom and they would send someone to the reception area, asked dom what happens when intercom doesn't work he said, put all eleven firms mail through letter box, we are not paid to go traipsing around office blocks looking for a particular business.when the intercom did break i left the mail in reception as requested and 739s for any signatures.according to dom the delivery point is the letter box, Which went into reception. I also had multi occupancy flats which I did parcels for, boxes on wall outside, which were opened using a key, either from inside or out,pressed intercom if no answer 739, postie followed same procedure with letters.