School holidays

[sharky0308]

And as for the regular overtime, it being an hour SA each morning doing the P>O boxes, be my guest and try and find someone that wants it or is capable of it even.

[janitor]

My old office had the block system too, but only being an office of about 70 everyone got there first choice of two weeks, so the block system only really come into it for second and third signings, but we still had people with kids complaining that the summer holidays should be ring fenced for people with kids, as they had booked other weeks in the first signing, DOM of course was having none of it, so even the block system won't satisfy some people. Lost count of the amount of times I was told I had no right booking Two weeks in August as I had no kids.

[Judgee]

Night Night Sharky.... try not to give in so easily next time!

Believe me i am not giving in..i am warming up, if you have not already guessed..seniority really pisses me off and i am known in my office for being an easy windup on it, but i will fight my corner and for those that are unable to speak up for themselves, and everything i said earlier i stand by, i am not the junior boy some may think i am, i have a good duty, regular overtime, holidays when i like, within reason, but i see all that is wrong and bad with the institutionalised that is seniority, i look forward to our next debate with glee.

Soooo as a protest you will be giving up your nice duty for a bad one, giving up your regular overtime and handing over all your holiday choices to someone else that needs them? No didn't think so!

I say nice duty, because it is....to me, i am about 170 on our seniority list, to a lot its shite, all i am saying is there should be a fair chance for all when it comes to holiday picks, as this thread implies afterall it is what this is about

You are not the "junior boy some may think" and yet you are 170 on the list? How many people are on this list then? No Sharky of course you have no axe to grind on seniority! See if you feel the same way in a few years!

[fishtank]

You boys want a good read?

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 08&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Judgee]

You boys want a good read?

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 08&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Read!!! I was there!!!! I have to admit looking at some of the arguements did make me chuckle. Seniority being likened to the BNP, ageism, white supremacy and all sorts.

Seniority has it's place. In determining holidays it's a good enough way to create some sort of order for picking weeks off, as long as it's reversed every other year! There are other, more complicated ways of doing it but it's quick, easy to follow and means people usually get the holidays they want at least once every two years!

[macetheace]

sour grapes I think..................when I started 20 yrs + I had my summer hols in mid-nov because I was at the bottom of the list, now someone comes in shouting and screaming they want the first 2 wks in august because little jonny is off on school hols

[Judgee]

sour grapes I think..................when I started 20 yrs + I had my summer hols in mid-nov because I was at the bottom of the list, now someone comes in shouting and screaming they want the first 2 wks in august because little jonny is off on school hols

For some reason the fact that we all suffered when we started is not considered a valid arguement Mace. I agree with you but apparently it's unfair for people to come in and start at the bottom now. They must start at the top and work thier way downwards!

[fishtank]

sour grapes I think..................

It's childish attitudes like yours that polarise the debate unnecessarily.
Everybody should get a fair allocation of annual leave regardless of length of service.
That's written into our agreements with the employer and backed up in law.
The fact that some office reps ignore that is pathetic but we all like to start squealing when Royal Mail start ignoring agreements don't we...

[fishtank]

For some reason the fact that we all suffered when we started is not considered a valid argument Mace.

It's not valid because the agreement ,the law and hopefully people's attitudes to what is an acceptable way to treat colleagues has changed.
Do you expect to be paid the same as you were 20 years ago?,have your terms and conditions stayed the same for 20 years?,has your job stayed the same for 20 years?
Why do you think that methods of holiday allocation must stay the same?

[Judgee]

For some reason the fact that we all suffered when we started is not considered a valid argument Mace.

It's not valid because the agreement ,the law and hopefully people's attitudes to what is an acceptable way to treat colleagues has changed.
Do you expect to be paid the same as you were 20 years ago?,have your terms and conditions stayed the same for 20 years?,has your job stayed the same for 20 years?
Why do you think that methods of holiday allocation must stay the same?

I was referring to seniority in general and yes when it comes to a revision seniority is a fair way to decide it. Is it fairer that someone fresh in from the world and fighting fit gets first choice at an easier round over someone that has knackered all thier joints over 20 years of plodding the streets? Why should someone walk straight in and get the easier rounds how is this fairer? Is it fairer to the people that have put in the graft over decades and who started at the bottom and already had a turn at the crap walks? You be PC all you want FT and I'll stick to what IS fair!

Never said methods of holiday entitlement must stay the same and I have already suggested the method used in my office which I consider to be fair for all!

[fishtank]

Is it fairer to the people that have put in the graft over decades and who started at the bottom and already had a turn at the crap walks?

When I started Judgee almost 21 years ago I had the worst walk in the office.
It had 320 calls and took about 2 and a half hours on an average day,about an hour and a half on a tuesday.
Is that what you mean by putting in the graft and having a turn at the crap walks.

[Judgee]

Is it fairer to the people that have put in the graft over decades and who started at the bottom and already had a turn at the crap walks?

When I started Judgee almost 21 years ago I had the worst walk in the office.
It had 320 calls and took about 2 and a half hours on an average day,about an hour and a half on a tuesday.
Is that what you mean by putting in the graft and having a turn at the crap walks.

It's all relative FT. You were new so did the crap walks in the office. Those crap walks may be considered by todays standard good walks but ultimately there were people who had been there longer than you and they had less of a daily grind. When I started it was the same, only the crap walks were worse than yours but perhaps slightly better than the crap walks of today. The point is we all have over the years, started with the crap walks, we all had a turn at it we were all moved from pillar to post until ultimately we got our own walks and then went on to better walks. How is it unfair to expect new starters to do what we all had to do? How is it fair to expect someone that has already had a turn at the crap walks to keep doing crap walks while someone new goes straight on to easy street?

[fishtank]

How is it unfair to expect new starters to do what we all had to do? How is it fair to expect someone that has already had a turn at the crap walks to keep doing crap walks while someone new goes straight on to easy street?

I don't think this thread was ever about the abolition of seniority based repicks.
It was about annual leave.

[Judgee]

How is it unfair to expect new starters to do what we all had to do? How is it fair to expect someone that has already had a turn at the crap walks to keep doing crap walks while someone new goes straight on to easy street?

I don't think this thread was ever about the abolition of seniority based repicks.
It was about annual leave.

It was then went off topic! I was replying to you and your link to another post. You then went on to point out how unfair seniority is in this day and age and again I was responding to this!

Despite what you think I don't think holiday entitlement should be based on seniority and kept on seniority year after year. It is a reasonable way to list people in some form of order to start with as long as it is reversed alternate years. The OP wanted to know how to get the holidays he wants every year. To which I replied "quit" because ultimately there is no other way to guarantee you will get the holiday weeks you want every year. Having children or a working partner with set holidays, would not as he no doubt hoped, entitle him to jump the queue whichever way it was organised in his office. Therefore quitting is the only way he would get all his holidays at the same time as his family!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

just stumbled across this thread - will people stop getting so personal about their replies. Argue and debate about the issue, not the person, or the thread will be locked.