Seniority question

[mightymetro]

Nearly at a re pick for revision in our office. We have four people who have full time contracts and 1 who has seniority over all these people but has only a temporary full time contract......has been acting up full time for a year but has only had the temp contract for 8 months. My question is does he have seniority over the other four or not. Many thanks

[shepherdess]

full time or part time seniority is lenth of service not how many hours worked

[chrisj]

I thought seniority was seniority... However, you are still a part-time postie, Unless there is a FT vacancy or made-up as a result of revision, you can only pick a PT duty.

So it is not an issue of seniority or not. I suppose you have a bunch of FT and PT jobs following your revision? But if they make you permanent FT before repick then you have can pick before the other four mentioned.

The problem is if you are made up after all the jobs have been picked - some months or so after major repicks, you will likely end up as a Reserve. So will you rather be a FT reserve or a Senior PT with a decent walk?

[mightymetro]

Thanks Chris that is exactly the guys dilemma, he does not want to be a reserve so would rather go back to part time, however the duty he is covering now is vacant so I am guessing he could take that if no one senior to him does of course! And I guess he could take it over the other 4

[chrisj]

I think he needs to put pressure (perhaps with help of Rep) on the manager to advertise the vacant post as soon as possible.

Following our major resign/repick, Our manager said he will duly advertise post within weeks of a vacancy . Guess what? That did not happen. After many months, I went to him to have a moan about wanting a new duty and that the vacant one should be advertised. Fair enough, he put the job up for written application; unfortunately for me, there were other silent interested parties... I didn't get it! (One even went down in hours to secure the vacant post)

On another note:

Is possible to go down hours to get a particular duty and then straight back up (weeks) following a vacancy in the original hours?

[Pinky 1]

On another note:

Is possible to go down hours to get a particular duty and then straight back up (weeks) following a vacancy in the original hours?

No, i don't think so.
After picking a new duty i'm sure you have to stay on it for a minimum time (12 months ? ) so you couldn't apply for another vacant duty 'within weeks'.

[chrisj]

The bloke said he was going to apply anyway... Some people just abuses the seniority thing

I doubt anyone will say anything. We do not have a Rep, the office is not that much into Union stuff and I doubt the manager will know any different.

Will it be bad form to inform the manager of the guidelines?

[Glenno]

The bloke said he was going to apply anyway... Some people just abuses the seniority thing

I doubt anyone will say anything. We do not have a Rep, the office is not that much into Union stuff and I doubt the manager will know any different.

Will it be bad form to inform the manager of the guidelines?

Here is the quote from the Way Forward, for you to use at your leisure


14.8 Where a full-time vacancy is advertised externally, all part-time staff will be able to express an interest. They will not have a right to the vacancy and will be considered alongside external applicants using the same criteria. Where unsuccessful, the reason will be explained in writing and they will be invited to discuss this with their line manager. They will remain in their current post and will have the opportunity to apply for future externally advertised full-time vacancies.

14.9 Employees taking up internally-advertised posts will be dedicated to them for a minimum of12 months. No applications for job moves will be considered during that period, unless they are:

• For specialist posts;
• As a result of serious personal or domestic reasons, following discussions with local CWU representatives.

14.10 RM and CWU locally will monitor the operation of this Agreement to ensure that the principles set out above are upheld and that a reasonable balance is secured between the Business need to have greater access to the full-time job changer market and the legitimate interests of existing and future part-time employees....

[Judgee]

Don't think the 12 month rule applies to duties signed for in a revision.

[Glenno]

Don't think the 12 month rule applies to duties signed for in a revision.

So what other Major Change can you see coming in the lifetime of the BT2010 or even past it, as we are now 9 mnths out of Agreement

[Judgee]

Glenno it's never been applied in the revisions in my office. People have changed walks after the revisions and then they are not allowed to change duties for 12 months. But the revision itself hasn't mean't everyone there is stuck on what they signed for for 12 months they have been allowed to change duties once imediately after and then the 12 month rule has been applied.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Don't think the 12 month rule applies to duties signed for in a revision.

RESOURCING JOBS DURING MAJOR CHANGE

16.1 The new standard resourcing procedures covered in the previous two sections of this agreement benefit employees by giving them regular opportunities to apply for a change of job, both within their unit and their resourcing area. These incorporate and standardise the current practises of rolling re-signs, based on seniority.

This section deals with the only other circumstance where people change jobs. This is where jobs alter significantly as a result of the introduction of major change. The overriding aims for managing all such exercises must be to minimise customer disruption and avoid unnecessary displacement of employees in a way that conforms to equal opportunities legislation. This will be ensured by timely planning and full CWU involvement at all stages of the exercise.

16.2 Major change is defined as:

• The relocation or merger of units;
• A significant process alteration arising from automated working or reshaping of the pipeline;
• Delivery revisions, which involve significant re-plotting of walks or significant restructuring of attendance patterns (e.g. full-time/part-time mix, five-day weeks, ‘longs and shorts’ or ‘night plus a first delivery’, where they are agreed).

16.3 Major change is defined as:

• Revisions of staffing arrangements, using the procedures agreed in the Performance Bonus Scheme, to implement the Performance Bonus Scheme, Shorter Working Week, Meal Relief Harmonisation and Work Time Learning or to improve alignment of staffing to workload in order to make performance improvements, unless they fall into the categories of major change defined in paragraph 2 above.
• Delivery revisions which do not involve significant re-plotting of first delivery walks.

Where such a revision displaces an individual, or where an individual’s earnings are affected, local discussions shall take place in line with the principles contained in Sections 14 and 15, which may vary the order to protect the individuals displaced. Timely planning will reduce the number of people affected in this way by the revision.

16.4 Where there is a major change as defined above, the key principles for dealing with the re-sign are:

• Employees whose jobs remain unaffected by the major change will retain them;
• These employees will have the option of applying for any of the jobs involved in the re-sign resulting from the major change, provided they have completed a minimum of twelve months on their existing duty (see Section 14 and 15). If this creates a resultant vacancy that would be filled using the normal resourcing procedures in Section 14 or 15;
• Employees taking part in the re-sign will be given the opportunity to advise of any personal circumstances, which necessitate a particular duty type or attendance pattern and, where practical, this will be accommodated. Where this happens, there will be prior discussion with the local CWU rep;
• The re-sign and all consequential training must be planned into the revision process;
• Specialist jobs that are reselected against are filled using the procedure in Section 15;
• The re-sign will be run using a national standard procedure based on seniority, and not take more than four weeks to complete. In very large units, agreement to an extension to this deadline must be given by the Head if Performance following local discussion between management and CWU. At the end of the exercise all jobs and reserve posts must have been signed for.
16.5 All major change schemes (as defined above) must be planned so as to have in place an agreement covering selection, placement and training, minimising and then managing surpluses and all other employee issues at least 13 weeks before the Ready for Service (RFS) date, or dates if the project is in phases. (Planning and discussions through Strategic Involvement and the IR Framework should start at least 12 months in advance of any planned major change). This agreement must conform to existing national agreements. In the event of any failure to reach agreement by this date, the points of difference will be referred to Service Delivery Headquarters and CWU Headquarters for resolution.

[Glenno]

Glenno it's never been applied in the revisions in my office. People have changed walks after the revisions and then they are not allowed to change duties for 12 months. But the revision itself hasn't mean't everyone there is stuck on what they signed for for 12 months they have been allowed to change duties once imediately after and then the 12 month rule has been applied.

This must be a local Agreement, I am not getting this at all, it does not stand up about what has been agreed in the National Agreement, sorry m8y

[Judgee]

Well Glenno as time goes by it has become clearer that lots of offices seem to have thier own way of doing things. Whether it's holidays, revisions, seniority. National agreements are often ignored which makes you wonder why the hell they bother with them in the first place!

[Glenno]

Well Glenno as time goes by it has become clearer that lots of offices seem to have thier own way of doing things. Whether it's holidays, revisions, seniority. National agreements are often ignored which makes you wonder why the hell they bother with them in the first place!

In thee first instance I totally agree, but if you don't bother with the standards, where will you be then