willful delay

[chrisj]

Drive up to the loops, do the letters and then the packets and so for the other loops. This is not that hard and 4.5 hours for 5 loops* is very generous even with the 3-8 large packets...

Am I missing something here.

We had a postman deliver his own walk (3.45hrs - 4.00hrs) and packets, tracked, specials for the 2 associated P&L walks - he was only given 1 hour extra.

I think that is a bit tight but then he was going that way anyway and he would ave had to do his own packets and specials for his normal day's pay.

In this case, he will have to do some Specials first or plan it in such a way (break off) that the specials do not fail.

Big packets are not always a problem - it is the medium size packets that will not fit letter boxes than can be a pain - especially when one has to use P739s...

* It depends on how big the loops are and volume and call rate but you said 30 minutes approx - so lets say, 3 hours to do walk and the rest for packets - sounds OK, to me.

[adamanti]

I suppose you must be in a large office... 5 walks is a lot but then trying to get folks for emergency delivery cover/OT is very difficult on a saturday.

What do you expect the manager to do? The manager will still have to report such an occurrence and he/she will be told off for that. And when managers get told or sanctioned, they will pass it down to the staff. Hence, folks will start getting home visits after a couple of days absence, less reduced (rehabilitation) period, bullying, harassment or worse...

Not fair! But we should be careful what we wish for in our spite.

The managers should take 1 walk out.....isn't he well paid!!!!! Oh wait will this cause him to work past his time.

I disagree here. The Manager should take zero walks out.

Got bugger all to do with how well he is paid. All it (Managers doing OPG's work) does is mask problems and aid the Mgrs bonus scheme.

Our Mgrs prep OT walks .. (and the OPG's complain if it is not ready when they wish to go out)

The Mgrs rush round the office collecting the missorts (surely OPG's work to deal with)

The Mgrs clear the trays , put bags bag on drop frames etc, etc

Do the Mgrs manage?

I don't think so.

And why then do we not have enough hours in the office?

If managers take walks out it begs the question do we really need them past a certain point of the day. Larger offices will have 5+ lino's + Dom support + Dom. Maybe part time managers is the way to go and the vast amount of money saved could be reallocated to where it is needed. Posties doing posties work.

[chrisj]

I don't understand the trend for multiple quotations? Even people quoting whole replies when all they want to comment on is just a tiny part of the post.

Wilful delay is something that is clear. No attempt to deliver and/or the concealment of the fact. Forgetting to take some mail is not wilful delay, however, if your manager informs you of the fact and then you still choose not to deliver or you come back and hide the mail, then that is clear...

Sometimes, I get blind-spots and miss the odd few addresses because some frames are messed up and one has to pick all over the place. The manager called me and told me that I left 2 houses (8 items); I said 'whatever', but he reminded me that it was my mistake... I rang off but called him back later to apologise; he was only doing his job... He could have said nothing and wait for me to act or not act.

Having said the above, we have people that rush out without taking missorts and people that leave some packets in the bag but that will not be a mitigating factor if I was hurled up for Wilfull delay.

* Manager not managing could be another thread. In fact, I think there will be a cull of managers in the near future; for them to be replaced by supervisors/posties/coaches.

[adamanti]

Why, because we can. Chrisj you may live in an ideal world and work in an ideal office, but for many of us this is not the case. Genuine mistakes have been seized on and still are by some managers who are looking for opportunities to make life very uncomfortable for you. Willful delay does not always mean deliberate, but also that reasonable care was taken to avoid. One big grey area.

By the way,I enjoy digression on this forum, you can learn so much.

[Thunderthighs]

adamanti....I agree, in an "Ideal World" its quite easy etc, but when you knock, wait, do the PDA - ( Postal Devilish Accessory) stick the card thro..write N/A on the parcel, get in the van, start to go..and they RUN across the road to stop you, THATS wen it gets silly and not once on a Loop, Multiple times!!!!

The 30 mins per Loop time allowance is Probably; On a sunny day, no dogs, no D2D's, all terraced houses, no steps or garden gates.

If Time Series Analysis was used, a more "Real World" time wud have to be applied..and It wouldnt be 30 mins in my opinion.
Example...Yesterday: Loop took 29mins plus, and no D2D's, no parcels/packets, and it was a Saturday, so quite lightish.
You can add another 10 - 15 mins to that if its Thursday, 6-12 parcels that are N/A's and dogs, gates etc...

[chrisj]

adamanti

This is not about an ideal world - it is the real world. * Why do you think, I said 'whatever' to my line manager - that was not exactly respectful from myself: I do not they are infallible and always fair or right.

Just how many people do you know that have been sacked for Wilful delay? And do you not have postie who actually cut corners and not do the job properly? It takes all sorts - managers and posties alike; we all human.

Reasonable care to avoid a wilful delay might sound like a grey area but that also works both ways: if we are talking about being given a bollocking then the manager is still within their right to bollock people - after all, most offices have a clear frame policy.

So how many have been sacked for wilful delay? We are not talking about posties stealing/hoarding mail and being taken to court or disciplined...

[chrisj]

digression and cross-purposes reply - how interesting.

Thunder, I do not think you and Adamanti are talking about the same things. From what I see, adamanti has some beef about 'managers' and you are talking about cut-offs and time given.

Well on well!

[clashcityrocker]

Willful delay does not always mean deliberate, but also that reasonable care was taken to avoid. One big grey area.

That is why we have two categories:
Wilful delay and unexcused delay.
Forgetting a few letters because they got stuck at the back of the filets is not wilful delay, but unexcused delay.
But unexcused delay could still be a sackable offence.

[janitor]

we had 1 DOM and 1 lino, on a saturday they used to complain about having 4 walks to do between them, apparently now they are out every day doing cut offs, lino used to complain that it was gone 11pm before he left the office the night before, by the time he had done the vacant duties then his own work. We once had 7 managers in the office all doing vacant walks.

[adamanti]

That is why we have two categories:
Wilful delay and unexcused delay.
Forgetting a few letters because they got stuck at the back of the filets is not wilful delay, but unexcused delay.
But unexcused delay could still be a sackable offence.


Postal Worker Bulletin May 99
Submitted on 12 May, 1999 - 11:50



When Royal Mail sent out a letter to staff back in January to explain the difference beteween wilful delay of the mail and unexcused delay, it looked like trouble was coming. Sure enough, the new conduct code is already being used to intimidate postal workers and union representatives, as management apply it to their own ends, often in an arbitrary and discriminatory way.

14 years ago, but sounds very familiar.

[fishtank]

The problem with the wilful delay charge is the definition of deliberate.
In Clash's example forgetting a few letters because they got stuck at the back of the filets is not wilful delay but deliberately not checking your frame before you leave the office because it might cost you 2 minutes could be.
As always it depends how much of a w**k your manager is.


I think the most dangerous thing you can do in today's climate is try to finish early,If you're prepared to work your hours it removes a great deal of the potential motivation argument from a wilful delay charge.Why would I deliberately leave those letters behind if I'm working to my time anyway,It makes no sense....

[clashcityrocker]

The problem with the wilful delay charge is the definition of deliberate.
....

Covering different duties I am always astonished at how often I find letters hidden in amongst the D2D that haven't been delivered as the walk holder wasn't going there that day.
I'm always astonished that managers who check the frames don't find them.
The day the auditor finds them will be the day the s**t hits the fan.