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Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rotten d

Latest Royal Mail and CWU news.This is an open forum.
clashcityrocker
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by clashcityrocker »

Judgee wrote:Mock it as you wish
Thanks for the invitation.

The Royal Mail Group has one principle: profit, one value: shareholders’ value. Workers’ interests are irreconcilable with this because profits are made at our expense through increased exploitation.

Unfortunately there were only 360 of us that didn't buy into this model.
It would appear that most of the 160 000 workforce are happy with " business unionism" (whatever that is)
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
Socialist postie
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by Socialist postie »

Thanks for posting that up norwichchris and the comments, of all stripes :wink:

The article is written by a rep in consultation with other postal workers, who work for a living and are in unions like most members of Workers Power, which is a Socialist group.

It lays out the fact that a rotten deal like 2009 is brewing, and that postal workers should ensure they get organised to have a say, not just a vote weeks down the line which is a real possibility.By then any strike momentum will be stone cold dead and much more difficult to revive - like in 2009. Seems reasonable and democratic, certainly many posties i've talked to thought so. The article doesn't just state this as some airy fairy political viewpoint but tries to relate it to our experience of the last couple of disputes.

I suspect the real dividing line is whether it was possible to fight marketisation and privatisation, our leadership certainly thought not (unless you count postcards, early day motions, meetings with MPs at Westminster, the odd protest as a fight!). The leadership under Dave Ward and Billy Hayes committed themselves to living with both, accepting downsizing and adopting the management word for it 'modernisation'.They accepted flexibility, efficiency drives, pension cuts etc in return for pay. Its worth remembering that rather than just a "fringe" rejecting this a third voted against both deals. Now Ward and Hayes are about to do it again, but even worse this time. I'd argue that if you just think all this was inevitable and we couldn't fight it then or now, well, as the top table has been telling us for a couple of months now,it is also inevitable that lots of us will have to find jobs at TNT sooner rather than later.

A second question is whether its la la land that the rank and file could get organised. The left (Post Worker (swp) and Broad left (sp)) in the CWU has a terrible record of avoiding any criticism of the leaderships's strategy over the last few years, or even praising them at times, and never building any grassroots organisation. But look at the massive vote for Jerry Hicks in Unite, who stood on the workers wage and the idea that "members decide, officials provide" in disputes, not the other way around. He got 80,000 votes, 40% in total, in the general secretary election without any backing from the bureaucracy, travelling the country by megabus etc. Is it really so far fetched that a credible candidate could stand from militant areas like London, Liverpool, Bristol etc and win a sizable backing? Or that if those branches or militants from them called an unofficial meeting it would get a real response, like the London unofficial meeting before the opening of the postal market in 2006? There was hundreds of people there.

We have another example from our own union. when London division organised a ballot of its members back in 2010 and well over 95% voted to disaffiliate from Labour. Yet at every conference votes to democratise the fund, much less set up a new party, are defeated by heavy majorities. That shows the way that the grassroots members desires are blocked, but certainly could be and should be organised and expressed. We haven't made that breakthrough yet, that's for sure, but under privatisation it is more important than ever that the rank and file get organised and the unions build a party that will actually fight privatisation, cuts, austerity.

Anyways we'll see about the deal but there is already quite alot of detail put down there as its basis and it doesn't look good in terms of the pension, no strike deal, etc. Certainly I think we could all agree that there are huge risks in the detail that has come out about the possible deal, given our experience of 2007 and 2009?
"We need an anti-capitalist, socialist party, one that says the working class and the oppressed must not pay for the long economic crisis of the banks and corporations..."
http://www.workerspower.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
fishtank
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by fishtank »

Judgee wrote:....and someone please tell why the pension issue needs to be dealt with separately.
So you would be happier having a crappy pension solution tied to a juicy lump sum?

It's important to have the pension issues addressed separately from a pay deal,What's also important is that the union makes it clear how important the pension issues still are to members,that we won't forget them,that we won't accept any more degradation of our terms and that if necessary we are prepared to take separate action to protect those terms
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
LinChong
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by LinChong »

The postponement has made things more difficult for reps on the frontline. Everyone was ready to go and it was cancelled at the last moment. Unless we get everything we want by November 13th, the strike must go ahead. After the strike, we can make an interim agreement covering this year's pay deal and come back next autumn to crash the share price and this Government. Labour may be controlled by its own elite but they don't f**k us as hard as people like Francis Maude.

It's not just the left who are uneasy. A lot of old school Tories and Royalists hate the meritocratic implications of efficiency because they want to keep patronage like everyone else who gains the power to hand out jobs. It's unrealistic to stop any elite, Labour or Tory, giving each other's kids cushy numbers so let's let them get on with it provided they don't take the piss. No more bonuses and stupidly high basic pay. No more cheap imported labour. No more buy-to-let. No more university tuition fees. School should reflect the reality of how jobs are allocated - everyone who passes an exam should be put into the pot and the highest grade should be given to the person whose family has the best connections. Build loads of council homes and raise the minimum wage so that one earner can support a family. Lower business taxes on pubs that don't sell food so that people have a place to socialise again. Make everyone fell welcome at publicly funded arts venues and stop the Jamie Oliverisation of these venues by decorating them to resemble sets from films instead of bars that appeal to the 'Farmers' Market' crowd.

I'm sure others can add to this list but the gist is that people from unconnected families are fed up with the people from connected families who take the piss. We need to sort it out.
Judgee
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by Judgee »

fishtank wrote:
Judgee wrote:....and someone please tell why the pension issue needs to be dealt with separately.
So you would be happier having a crappy pension solution tied to a juicy lump sum?

It's important to have the pension issues addressed separately from a pay deal,What's also important is that the union makes it clear how important the pension issues still are to members,that we won't forget them,that we won't accept any more degradation of our terms and that if necessary we are prepared to take separate action to protect those terms
Sorry Tank but that's bullshit!

The pension issues would be better dealt with along with all the other issues. Taking it away from the other issues weakens the support. Not everyone is bothered by the pension issues alone and would be less likely to fight/strike for them seperately! :speak to the hand

They should deal with all disagreements together as a whole, breaking them up will have a diversive effect on the workforce and it's back to the old "divide and conquer" tactics! :cuppa
Union what Union? Do we have a union?
fishtank
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by fishtank »

Judgee wrote:They should deal with all disagreements together as a whole, breaking them up will have a diversive effect on the workforce and it's back to the old "divide and conquer" tactics! :cuppa
Are you telling me that the membership if offered a £500 lump sum and a 10% pay rise over 3 years with 5 years T&Cs protection as long as they accepted a poorer pension settlement wouldn't say screw the pension when do we get our money?
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Judgee
EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by Judgee »

fishtank wrote:
Judgee wrote:They should deal with all disagreements together as a whole, breaking them up will have a diversive effect on the workforce and it's back to the old "divide and conquer" tactics! :cuppa
Are you telling me that the membership if offered a £500 lump sum and a 10% pay rise over 3 years with 5 years T&Cs protection as long as they accepted a poorer pension settlement wouldn't say screw the pension when do we get our money?
Some would yes. Some are so blinded by £££ signs that they would sell thier own grannies for a few quid not seeing the bigger picture. That's why an acceptable agreement should be made for all issues not just some.

If the pension problem is dealt with seperately some of the support for industrial action will fall away having got what they wanted personally and leaving those with more concerns for the pension plans pissing in the wind.

All issues should be dealt with as a whole and unless all issues are dealt with appropriately further action needs to be taken! :arrrghhh

This is all part of the RM plan give some people what they want but not all, divide and conquer. Our strength comes from standing together! :arrrghhh :roll:
Union what Union? Do we have a union?
bigcol
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by bigcol »

Judgee wrote:Time will tell but I would not be surprised if the CWU land us with another "deal of the century" :arrrghhh
Less hours, less miles, less weight, more money. Let's hope so. :pray
Red Robbo
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by Red Robbo »

Judgee wrote:
fishtank wrote:
Judgee wrote:They should deal with all disagreements together as a whole, breaking them up will have a diversive effect on the workforce and it's back to the old "divide and conquer" tactics! :cuppa
Are you telling me that the membership if offered a £500 lump sum and a 10% pay rise over 3 years with 5 years T&Cs protection as long as they accepted a poorer pension settlement wouldn't say screw the pension when do we get our money?
Some would yes. Some are so blinded by £££ signs that they would sell thier own grannies for a few quid not seeing the bigger picture. That's why an acceptable agreement should be made for all issues not just some.

If the pension problem is dealt with seperately some of the support for industrial action will fall away having got what they wanted personally and leaving those with more concerns for the pension plans pissing in the wind.

All issues should be dealt with as a whole and unless all issues are dealt with appropriately further action needs to be taken! :arrrghhh

This is all part of the RM plan give some people what they want but not all, divide and conquer. Our strength comes from standing together! :arrrghhh :roll:
Our members are driven by greed, I had members moaning to me that they were going to lose £300.00 and a day's pay for 4 November ? :arrrghhh
Judgee
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by Judgee »

Not all of them Robbo just some, and they tend to be the most vocal. There are still many who are looking for a little more job security and a half decent pension! :wink:
Union what Union? Do we have a union?
Budfrog
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by Budfrog »

fishtank wrote:
Judgee wrote:They should deal with all disagreements together as a whole, breaking them up will have a diversive effect on the workforce and it's back to the old "divide and conquer" tactics! :cuppa
Are you telling me that the membership if offered a £500 lump sum and a 10% pay rise over 3 years with 5 years T&Cs protection as long as they accepted a poorer pension settlement wouldn't say screw the pension when do we get our money?
FT I'm not sure of the average age of an OPG but for the younger ones and for the majority of PT staff the aim is to pay the mortgage and provide for the family from year to year. I don't blame them for not thinking too much about their pensions as everything is so far in the future that many things can change but it will have an divisive impact on the membership if the issues are spilt.
Phantom
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by Phantom »

It'll be a wank deal, like the last 2 we've had. No confidence in the cwu.
CUT OFF!!!
Danelectro
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by Danelectro »

Socialist postie wrote:
A second question is whether its la la land that the rank and file could get organised.
I agree we need a grass roots union and working people need to keep an open mind rather than give into knee jerk business realism but as you go on to say in your post its HQ that hold sway over any change of direction so thats why I say its la la land to think there will be any other outcome other than a deal made by HQ and most definitely it will be endorsed by the majority of branches.So try as we might I think the ship has sailed.
cloherty1976
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by cloherty1976 »

Budfrog wrote:
fishtank wrote:
Judgee wrote:They should deal with all disagreements together as a whole, breaking them up will have a diversive effect on the workforce and it's back to the old "divide and conquer" tactics! :cuppa
Are you telling me that the membership if offered a £500 lump sum and a 10% pay rise over 3 years with 5 years T&Cs protection as long as they accepted a poorer pension settlement wouldn't say screw the pension when do we get our money?
FT I'm not sure of the average age of an OPG but for the younger ones and for the majority of PT staff the aim is to pay the mortgage and provide for the family from year to year. I don't blame them for not thinking too much about their pensions as everything is so far in the future that many things can change but it will have an divisive impact on the membership if the issues are spilt.
Budfrog is right in what he says and everyone has a different view and outcome they need or want for there own gain. Not everyone is worried about there pension and maybe they would rather have a few extra quid in there pockets. Some people are not looking at making a career out of this job and could not careless about the pension, on the other there are a lot of people who already have taken there pensions and don't care too. It's not like years ago when we all got paid the same and just had allowances for lots of things. Times have changed and to be blunt people are out for themselves or the sections they work in.
borders
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Re: Postal workers watch your leaders: CWU tops aim for rott

Post by borders »

its not enough just being a Union member and expecting the Union to come up with some amazing deal. the Union will just do a deal which will have some concession from RM but ultimately it will be a deal which will allow a now Privatised RM to move forward with its plan to compete and reward its new shareholders. there is nobody out there that is challenging Capitalism and asking if it is really a system for everybody ? I believe it is system designed by the rich , for the rich and it rewards the rich very well but many will disagree and will argue that the ordinary person is in fact living a state of Utophia i.e this is the best it gets for us ?
we have no real political party that puts the ordinary working man before big business , the elite etc , etc we are conditioned to believe and accept that , that is the way it is to be.
It will take a massive sea change in people's consciousnesses . I am not religious at all but read and have a think about this -

when we humans are the only fully conscious, reasoning, intelligent, extraordinarily clever, can-get-a-man-on-the-moon animal–is so intelligent and clever about being so competitive, selfish and aggressive in our behaviour; indeed, so ruthlessly competitive, selfish and brutal that human life has become all but unbearable and we have nearly destroyed our own planet?! No wonder, as it says in Genesis in the Bible, having ‘take[n]’ the ‘fruit…from the tree of knowledge’ (3:3, 2:17) that was ‘desirable for gaining wisdom’ (3:6)–that is, become fully conscious, thinking, knowledge-finding beings–we humans became so destructively behaved, so apparently lacking in ‘wisdom’, that we seemingly deserved to be condemned and ‘banished…from the Garden of Eden’ (3:23) as defiling, unworthy, evil beings!

for me that is what Capitalism is , lacking in wisdom , maybe the Human Being is incapable of co- operation ......
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.