Tman wrote:... the future Scottish economy is precarious at best, and too vulnerable to external factors (such as the Ineos "owner" getting stroppy again).
That alone ought to make a few undecideds stop and think before voting.
This is an interesting point, that seems to lead along the line of "Scotland can't afford to go alone."
I don't think I need to do any sums, as the position of Scotland within the UK is surely not as a receiver of charity from the 'kind-hearted' government of England.
I haven't even decided what my vote is and I'm not a nationalist, but when I hear the 'poverty stricken' Scots argument, it does make me wonder whose vested-interested is at stake?
Tman wrote:Although the recent Grangemouth announcement that it (ie just one industrial complex!) provides 10% of Scottish GDP highlighted that the future Scottish economy is precarious at best, and too vulnerable to external factors (such as the Ineos "owner" getting stroppy again).
That alone ought to make a few undecideds stop and think before voting.
if anyones economy is in a precarious situation it is the UK's £120 billion deficit plus loans of a further £30 billion .... whereas Scotland's economy has never been in deficit since the 2007 economic recession ... except for 1 year last year but that is because Oil, Gas and Whisky is not included in the Scottish GDP figures .... you are just a troll tman ... as for the better together campaign they do not want to discuss the economic arguement because they know they can't win that argument hence the scare stories they constantly roll out which have no substance to them
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
Scottish independance is a disaster waiting to happen.The tragedy was the creation of a parliament (30percent voter turnout) which created a fatal weakness in the union and an ever widening gap between scotland and the uk whatever the result of the forthcoming referendum.Think of the social consequences dividing people and building prejudice; the political reprecussions and dangers of a dictatorial one party state and the economic decline in the real world which will be blamed on the south reinforcing nationalism and prejudice.The SNP are student politics out of their depth,they make up policies with no grounding in reality and will say and do anything to undermine the union and get more power.I would hope people would see through these fools but sadly not if history is anything to go by.....
walrus wrote:Scottish independance is a disaster waiting to happen.The tragedy was the creation of a parliament (30percent voter turnout) which created a fatal weakness in the union and an ever widening gap between scotland and the uk whatever the result of the forthcoming referendum.Think of the social consequences dividing people and building prejudice; the political reprecussions and dangers of a dictatorial one party state and the economic decline in the real world which will be blamed on the south reinforcing nationalism and prejudice.The SNP are student politics out of their depth,they make up policies with no grounding in reality and will say and do anything to undermine the union and get more power.I would hope people would see through these fools but sadly not if history is anything to go by.....
so tell me how are we better together ??
and your entire post is a load of rubbish .... 30 per cent turn out my arse try 60.4% ... the no campaign from start have came out with scare stories with no basis whatso ever ... and I think you will find we have more political parties than England .... and unlike Westminster our parliament is way more democratic with p/r as well as first past the post and a independent Scotland we have have the government the people elected unlike we do under Westminster whwere we are governed by a party which has only 1 Mp in Scotland .... now begone and stop posting your nonsense
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
Yeah, that must be it.
So you're saying Salmond was lying then when he said last week that Grangemouth contributed 10% of Scottsh GDP?
as for the better together campaign they do not want to discuss the economic arguement because they know they can't win that argument hence the scare stories they constantly roll out which have no substance to them
If the above is true, (and we've no reason to disbelieve that nice Mr Salmond, have we? ) it sounds more like the SNP are the ones who can't win the economic argument that Scotland is on a sound financial footing.
Yeah, that must be it.
So you're saying Salmond was lying then when he said last week that Grangemouth contributed 10% of Scottsh GDP?
as for the better together campaign they do not want to discuss the economic arguement because they know they can't win that argument hence the scare stories they constantly roll out which have no substance to them
If the above is true, (and we've no reason to disbelieve that nice Mr Salmond, have we? ) it sounds more like the SNP are the ones who can't win the economic argument that Scotland is on a sound financial footing.
10% of Scottish economy is oil that is what he is referring ... look up the government economic results the past 7 years 2 parts of the UK are in Surplus the rest is in deficit and that 10% of our economy is not even included in our GDP figures neither is gas or Whisky ..... so stop spouting your shite uk Economy £120 billion deficit and £30 billion in loans .... so please f*ck off you sad little troll .... the figures do not lie
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
The SNP are a centralised autocratic party led by an egotistical bully and liar with little tolerance for dissension or debate and little time for democratic accountability.As the SNP strengthen their position and business and media influence it is perfeectly legitimate to question if future opposition parties will be able to remove them from government.Multi party parliaments are no protection from tyranny.It is also legitimate to question the wisdom of giving political expression to the nationalist prejudice within scottish society which is best left to the bars and the terraces,and to consider the social implications. Without the parliament the SNP would be heading for the dustbin of history where it firmly belongs.Yes westminster governments have been awful with widespread corruption,mismanagement,incompetence etc but nationalism is no way forward.Out of the frying pan into the furnace.Anyway i can express my views as and when as can you. As to the effects on postal services same applies.Best united.Why go to the time expense and aggravation of splitting up a perfectly functional service to create complications and uncertainty.Scotland benifits with RM.A scottish mail would have to cut services,raise prices and/or recieve more state subsidy as delivery costs more due to the geography.Of course you could believe that RM will be renationalised,energy bills will fall by 5% whilst we become the saudi arabia of renewable energy and the seventh richest nation on the planet joining the tiger economies of iceland and ireland guided by the genius of trump goodwin murdoch and the like.Wake up and smell thee coffee.
All style no substance walrus.
I can't see anything in that rant that isn't just juvenile name calling or guesswork which is ironically what the (I can't believe it's not)better together campaign usually accuses the independence side of doing..
. so stop spouting your shite uk Economy £120 billion deficit and £30 billion in loans
I didn't, that's been your refrain..
.... so please f*ck off you sad little troll .... the figures do not lie
No, you do.
Salmond, when he was doing his best to be statesman-like (and failing miserably, the smug little arse) said categorically that Grangemouth couldn't be allowed to close as it contributed 10% to the Scottish economy. He never said oil contributed 10% as it would do that whether Grangemouth was running or not.
Twist it any way you like, but that's the truth of it. A whopping 10% of GDP from one little complex. Scary, eh?
. so stop spouting your shite uk Economy £120 billion deficit and £30 billion in loans
I didn't, that's been your refrain..
.... so please f*ck off you sad little troll .... the figures do not lie
No, you do.
Salmond, when he was doing his best to be statesman-like (and failing miserably, the smug little arse) said categorically that Grangemouth couldn't be allowed to close as it contributed 10% to the Scottish economy. He never said oil contributed 10% as it would do that whether Grangemouth was running or not.
Twist it any way you like, but that's the truth of it. A whopping 10% of GDP from one little complex. Scary, eh?
TROLL
as for Walrus ... he is probably one of the rebrobates from that idiot board FollowFollow.com ... because that is the nonsense they spout
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
fishtank wrote:All style no substance walrus.
I can't see anything in that rant that isn't just juvenile name calling or guesswork which is ironically what the (I can't believe it's not)better together campaign usually accuses the independence side of doing..
the post may be somewhat juvenile but the premise is clear namely to question the character,integrity and judgement of the first minister and to show the chasm between the rhetoric of the snp and the reality. Speculation or as you say guesswork is all there is when looking ahead but is it not time to widen the independance debate beyond will or wont we have a little extra coin and how bad the present government is because this is constitutional change and there are so many bigger questions.The majority do not want an independant scotland but most support the parliament.Here i differ as although i concede that there have been short term benifits it has wrecked the uk constitutionally.The 14 referendum is important of course but it will not bring closure to this issue.A yes vote would bring a very limited form of independance with an escalation in political conflict with westminster and a no vote would slow down the independance by stealth but how realistic and sustainable is it to vote against independance whilst continually returning the nationalists to power in Edinburgh. Things look bleak but to the bravehearts on here careful what you wish for.
fishtank wrote:All style no substance walrus.
I can't see anything in that rant that isn't just juvenile name calling or guesswork which is ironically what the (I can't believe it's not)better together campaign usually accuses the independence side of doing..
the post may be somewhat juvenile but the premise is clear namely to question the character,integrity and judgement of the first minister and to show the chasm between the rhetoric of the snp and the reality. Speculation or as you say guesswork is all there is when looking ahead but is it not time to widen the independance debate beyond will or wont we have a little extra coin and how bad the present government is because this is constitutional change and there are so many bigger questions.The majority do not want an independant scotland but most support the parliament.Here i differ as although i concede that there have been short term benifits it has wrecked the uk constitutionally.The 14 referendum is important of course but it will not bring closure to this issue.A yes vote would bring a very limited form of independance with an escalation in political conflict with westminster and a no vote would slow down the independance by stealth but how realistic and sustainable is it to vote against independance whilst continually returning the nationalists to power in Edinburgh. Things look bleak but to the bravehearts on here careful what you wish for.
if you honestly believe that then you need to seek help.... Independence is about looking forward and making all decisions affecting the people in Scotland by Scots in other words taking responsibility for our decisions ... you say no one wants independence funny the latest polls are 5 - 7 % points of a difference between the yes and no campaigns and around 15 - 20% unsure which way to vote ... the "Better Together" campaign concentrates on all the scaremongering stories you seem to love but have no basis whatso ever ... and they do not want to talk about the issues that matter the economy, jobs, health Nhs (currently being privatised through the back door in England and will happen in Scotland if we vote no), tax issues like the bedroom tax, fuel prices (Scotland produces more than enough Gas for Scotland but not enough for the rest of the UK .... the UK has to import Gas hence the high cost of gas) the UK in general (outwith Scotland) is heading further to the right ... btw the Yes Scotland is not just about the Snp it includes the Green Party, The Scottish Socialists Party, Scottish Labour for Independence and several independents Msps and it is lead by Blair Jenkins (and Not Alex Salmond as people like you think) and also unlike you have confidence that a Independent Scotland will be prosperous nation within 5 years of a YES vote I have faith in my fellow country men that we can make Scotland a fairer country ... it will require that everyone plays their part in making it fairer ... he have the natural resources
oh and another thing people will be able to travel freely around the entire British Isles like they currently do just now if N Ireland and the Republic can do it so can we
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
. so stop spouting your shite uk Economy £120 billion deficit and £30 billion in loans
.... so please f*ck off you sad little troll .... the figures do not lie
TROLL
as for Walrus ... he is probably one of the rebrobates from that idiot board FollowFollow.com ... because that is the nonsense they spout
Don't like it when someone points out the faults in your little world, do you?
So, thus far-
1) an independant Scotland has made no official statement as to it's national bank,
2) likewise no statement about it's future currency,
3) no plan or even debate on joining the EU,
4) the economy's money supply is so tight that one industrial complex supplies 10% of GDP.
And yet all those grandiose plans,eh? Maybe it isn't Walrus who needs help..
Hur kan du ta någon på allvar som bor i en true blood världen, bär kjol lite fantast
You want to talk economics godric you might want to consider the lunacy of the SNP windmill driven electricity generation and its effects.(in mitigation energy policy has been off kilter since privatisation all parties are culpable and it is a good example of the flawed decision making process in modern politics(though that wont help one bit when were out on our own).Could give you a new elephant in the room every day but why bother.I can see you are passionate about all this but me and you will just have to agree to disagree.Incidentally have they got the trams running in Edinburgh yet? Only been what 4 yeears?
walrus wrote:You want to talk economics godric you might want to consider the lunacy of the SNP windmill driven electricity generation and its effects.(in mitigation energy policy has been off kilter since privatisation all parties are culpable and it is a good example of the flawed decision making process in modern politics(though that wont help one bit when were out on our own).Could give you a new elephant in the room every day but why bother.I can see you are passionate about all this but me and you will just have to agree to disagree.Incidentally have they got the trams running in Edinburgh yet? Only been what 4 yeears?
The Trams in Edinburgh was a Labour/Tory/ Libs back plan that backfired that ended up costing double for a 1/3rd less of of the original tram route and hired 2 competing companies to fulfil the contract ... btw I omitted the Snp and the Greens because both parties voted against the Trams but it was still pushed through as the Snp ran a minority government or have you forgotten this the Snp wanted to scrap it altogether when they won a majority only to find out that it would cost more to cancel the Trams than it would to complete it .... look it up if you don't believe me
actually green energy is cheaper than Nuclear energy which costs £10s of billions to keep safe when they are decommissioned and to build new ones and those so called windmills do work .... and a big wave scheme is being built off the north west of Scotland that will generate 20% of our energy needs and if it does not work then why are countries like Qatar investing billions in Scottish renewables
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
) it sounds more like the SNP are the ones who can't win the economic argument that Scotland is on a sound financial footing.
