Moya's view on a 10 year agreement

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk where did I say we were not looking for a long term agreement ? The point I was making was we are not accepting an end date !

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk where did I say we were not looking for a long term agreement ? The point I was making was we are not accepting an end date !

So what you're asking from RM is an infinite agreement on Terms and Conditions and if that is the case I'd be thinking of setting the next strike days - it isn't going to happen. I can categorically say that there is no chance whatsoever. RM will have a long term plan of cost cutting, closures, job losses and outsourcing and nothing will stand in the way of the long term plan. I think we should be thinking in terms of a managed decline and that is sad but is by far the most likely scenario.

[fishtank]

Dvbuk where did I say we were not looking for a long term agreement ? The point I was making was we are not accepting an end date !

I might be coming across as a bit thick dingo but I don't really get that.
Surely the first review date is basically the end date.It's ok to say we have an agreement to protect our terms and conditions forever but obviously if there is a reopener clause which there obviously has to be then it's not forever it's just until circumstances change.

There is a danger that this whole protections thing is getting bogged down in semantics,It's pretty obvious that no matter the length of the agreement if there is major unforeseen changes in the business or management structure the union will be back at the negotiating table trying to protect our terms again no matter what agreement we have so I think the members would be happy to see some kind of guarantee that this management structure has no plans to attack our terms,conditions and pensions now and in the future and if there is change at the top we'll deal with that if and when it arrives.

I want to see more work done on workplace issues as well,this savings driven management culture is hammering delivery members and costing jobs in delivery and processing and WCM is divisive and a laughing stock.
We need some solid agreements to address these issues.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk that is not what the union wants either. Let's say we get 5 years or say 7 years we are not going to accept that after that period they can then franchise delivery , collections and Mail centres , we are not going to allow them to outsource work which is not in the USO which is 53% of work we do in delivery offices and Mail centres? We are not then going to accept the end of our national agreements , everything from what annual leave we get , to shift payments to seniority or MTSF.

What we want is that there will be a review at the end of the period , and any changes they want should be reviewed based on the business at that time and any changes they want to make to our agreement has to mean a further negotiation and they have to give a notice period. All of these terms would be in a legally binding agreement.

[chrisj]

Now we are talking... Wheez, some sensible enquiries and concrete proposals after all these time of just trusting the CWU. The Union is great and I am happy for what they have achieved so far - perhaps, I am easily pleased.

Real Work place issues and actually sticking to Agreements and making things work at micro level is something I have always advocated. Broad strokes and big complex and ambiguous statements and wish lists does not do it for me.

It will be really nice for the Union to actually start to make RM and Members stick to the Agreements and Ways of Working that has been fought for instead asking for more and more without any chance making it work or policing things.

Tomorrow never dies - cannot wait!

[dvbuk55]

Dvbuk that is not what the union wants either. Let's say we get 5 years or say 7 years we are not going to accept that after that period they can then franchise delivery , collections and Mail centres , we are not going to allow them to outsource work which is not in the USO which is 53% of work we do in delivery offices and Mail centres? We are not then going to accept the end of our national agreements , everything from what annual leave we get , to shift payments to seniority or MTSF.

What we want is that there will be a review at the end of the period , and any changes they want should be reviewed based on the business at that time and any changes they want to make to our agreement has to mean a further negotiation and they have to give a notice period. All of these terms would be in a legally binding agreement.

That's my point really dingo - no matter the time period, whenever circumstances change there must be the option to negotiate. It's a tall order to say you aren't going to allow them to change the business structure ad infinitum because that will not happen. The legally binding agreement is really a blind alley because as you point out not all of the work we carry out is in the USO and may not be open to discussion depending on the wording of the "binding" agreement. Lets face it the CWU doesn't have a resounding record of dotting the i's and crossing the t's when it comes to agreements, as we've discovered to our cost.

[banner18]

Strict clocking in and out mechanisms that ensure when people are over it has a digital record and is paid for or used as evidence for work reduction in the future. The union are banging their heads against a brick wall trying to get agreements when most people aren't working correctly in the first place and are bullied if they try to.