chrisj wrote:The simple fact is that a large number of employees are happy with the deal on offer from RM
Can you back that simple fact up with.....facts?
You can't even say for definite that the 10% who voted no are necessarily happy with the deal.Voting no to strike action is not the same as voting yes to anything.
The only fact is that there are no facts and you base all of your opinions on your opinion,there isn't anything wrong with that but you should try to avoid opening statements like The simple fact is because it plainly isn't simple or a fact.
Why would someone vote No if they do not automatically want the deal? The No votes are the clearest of the 3 possibilities.
Many Yes voters voted very quickly; some would undoubtedly have voted No given the £300 bribe; notwithstanding some will not be striking... And those that abstained could be 50/50 - at least they did not feel strongly for a strike...
Trying to shoot the messenger is not going to prevent the inevitable. Even on a forum that is very left-winged like this one, we are beginning to sense that people are desperate for a deal, softening their rhetoric rather than the initial gung-ho attitude to a strike.
In the words of Kenny Rogers, it is time to fold...
I still agree that the 2 situations are almost completely different but going forward RM/Shareholders will not allow CWU to dictate for their business.
chrisj wrote:Why would someone vote No if they do not automatically want the deal?
They voted No to Industrial Action.
They didn't want to take Industrial Action.
I would have thought that was the most obvious and really the only safe assumption you can make from a question that basically says do you want to take Industrial Action?
chrisj wrote:Sorry, no amount of manning the picket is going to prevent more than 30% turning up to work. The simple fact is that a large number of employees are happy with the deal on offer from RM and can we really trust any dinosaur Union from leading us astray?
The strike is actually going to be the undoing of the Union. They better deal now and save their strength and membership for another day.
I can just see a lot of union members, RM employees, politicians and most significantly the members of the public asking why are they doing this? Are they mad? or just greedy?
Manning a picket and trying to intimidate is so 20th century
I think we should take the deal now and get everyone to see that they have 3 yrs to pay of there debts before the real fight starts......if they (rm) pull this deal we are well fu*ked
chrisj wrote:Sorry, no amount of manning the picket is going to prevent more than 30% turning up to work. The simple fact is that a large number of employees are happy with the deal on offer from RM and can we really trust any dinosaur Union from leading us astray?
The strike is actually going to be the undoing of the Union. They better deal now and save their strength and membership for another day.
I can just see a lot of union members, RM employees, politicians and most significantly the members of the public asking why are they doing this? Are they mad? or just greedy?
Manning a picket and trying to intimidate is so 20th century
I think we should take the deal now and get everyone to see that they have 3 yrs to pay of there debts before the real fight starts......if they (rm) pull this deal we are well fu*ked
then you are only delaying the inevitable fight to when the union is in a much weaker position than it is now
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
chrisj wrote:
In the words of Kenny Rogers, it is time to fold...
I think Kenny Rogers also sang...........Sometimes you've got to fight when you're a man(women too of course )
Most of us think that time is now, i can't see any benefit to folding, probably just the same result as fighting and losing.
Looking at this deal the only guaranteed benefit that I will receive is a first year payrise of 2.6%. A below inflation rise.
If all you doubters are prepared to throw in the towel for 2.6% as against a fight for your future, then we are living in a world of blind men. This company is coming for your hard fought terms and conditions and they are coming for them despite whether you agree to this deal. Can we do anything about it. In the long term probably not, but I aint going to make it f.cking easy for them.
Churchill or Chamberlain - if pushed I'd rather have Churchill despite all the aggro that comes with.
Appeasement and agreement only delays the inevitable, and unlike the UK in the 30s we have no way to prepare for a future battle, we may as well have it now.
Sun Tzu - Art of War - Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
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People should be able to make up their own minds. They should not be dictated to and spoon fed information that might invoke thought.
You will make a good RM manager
Pull this thread down, pull that thread down... What about freedom of expression and thought as long as one is not being offensive or advocating violence or discrimination?
halfull wrote:threads like this should be taken down as they have no relevance & only scare people when there is no need! silly stupid pointless thread.
Todays news.
Ineos will reopen the petrochemical plant and oil refinery at Grangemouth immediately
Ineos has undertaken to invest £300m at the Grangemouth site on a gas terminal to handle shale gas brought in from America
Workers agreed to a three-year pay freeze
The union agreed not to stage strikes at the plant for three years until the new gas terminal is built
Changes will be made to current staff pension arrangements
Up to 2,000 contractors who were laid off after the complex was shut will be re-hired
Fishtank, who speaks wisely a lot of the time, said that there was nothing the union could have done, the owners wanted to close the plant at any cost. Wrong. They have forced the union to back down and accept exactly what they wanted in the first place. The investment is going in, there is a 3 year 'deal' and it ain't exactly as good as the one we had.
Halfull. Pointless thread that scares people? Maybe, but all I am saying is that we may not be as fireproof as some people seem to think we are and if you aren't a bit scared that it might all go completely wrong you are not thinking in a calm and logical manner. Reasoned, calm argument is what we need, not chest beating and table thumping in the negotiating room. We need to understand where a newly empowered management is coming from and if the negotiators on both sides don't have what just happened at Grangemouth in the back of their minds I'd be a bit suprised.
Are you really sure that we have nothing to learn from this?
Mighty Hunter wrote:Fishtank, who speaks wisely a lot of the time, said that there was nothing the union could have done, the owners wanted to close the plant at any cost. Wrong. They have forced the union to back down and accept exactly what they wanted in the first place. The investment is going in, there is a 3 year 'deal' and it ain't exactly as good as the one we had.
Watch and learn MH.
The £300 million investment is not all it seems and neither is the promise to keep the petrochemical side of the complex open.
ha. his mouth or his arsehole. whats the difference. shite comes out of both. 
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