Deal done?

[chickenwittle]

well maybe rm might take strength from whats happened at grangemouth,seems the union have rolled over and now seem willing to accept what mangement wanted in the first place.

[chrisj]

Its a completely different scenario, of course.

But what it highlights is that you cannot push your employer too far... Especially when you are in the private sector...

The only similarities is that an offered was made that was accepted by a sizeable number of employees and that offer was generous in the context of that particular company and its predicaments.

We are still quasi-public sector

A Shutdown or Strike is not good for anyone!

[Martin Walsh]

There is no deal , talks resumed yesterday and are scheduled to continue till Friday. The differences between what the CWU want and want Royal Mail are at this point willing to give are some distance apart. We have been told to prepare for the strike and I believe it will go ahead unless Royal Mail do a complete somersault in the talks.

The reason why the CWU have not served formal notice on the strike is that why should we give Royal Mail's legal team more than 7 days to attempt a challenge remember the union has to inform the employer of the numbers of people in workplaces taking strike action.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Its a completely different scenario, of course.

But with many similarities

But what it highlights is that you cannot push your employer too far... Especially when you are in the private sector...

But what it highlights is that you cannot push your employees too far, even in the private sector.

The only similarities is that an offer was made that was accepted by a sizable number of employees and that offer was generous in the context of that particular company and its predicaments.

Some of the similarities are that we are not being told the whole story, we will never hear anything from the workers perspective unless its "sexy" for the News. Other similarities are a lack of trust in senior management, Union disengagement and poor communication.

A Shutdown or Strike is not good for anyone!

Which should concentrate the minds of the negotiators on both sides (of both disputes) and both should be open minded and honest. Not sure you could say that in the case of Grangemouth.


One thing does amaze me about the British public and Press is that they always question the motives of the workers and the Unions, but very rarely question the opposite side in any dispute. Its a dirty word when workers defend what they have and they are called dinosaurs, yet the bosses give themselves double digit pay rises and multi-million bonuses and its seen as the cost of doing business. Something smells in the kingdom of Denmark and Britain.

[britwrit]

Corporations are the new unions. Give them what they want or they'll down tools.

[chrisj]

Whatever the motive of the other side, they are the ones with the money and investment... Its their toy and they can choose whichever way the want to play with or not at all.

It is easy to have such an opinion when one still has a job. It is not exactly the same feelings anymore for the workers of Grangemouth who do not currently have a job.

And the Union has backtracked spectacularly giving that 33% and the others (non-union members) that makes up to 50% accepted the deal.

Now who is more clever? Shame it is still collective bargaining and punishment whether one said Yes or No and whether one is in the Union or not.

[antcpfc]

Whatever the motive of the other side, they are the ones with the money and investment... Its their toy and they can choose whichever way the want to play with or not at all.

It is easy to have such an opinion when one still has a job. It is not exactly the same feelings anymore for the workers of Grangemouth who do not currently have a job.

And the Union has backtracked spectacularly giving that 33% and the others (non-union members) that makes up to 50% accepted the deal.

Now who is more clever? Shame it is still collective bargaining and punishment whether one said Yes or No and whether one is in the Union or not.

Non union members who didn't strike were happy enough to take the dtod payment of £25 a week that was won for them.

[pcb]

Chrisj: Grangemouth shows what happens when management want to reduce operational costs, workers get less!
The idiot on newsnight last night giving it the big I am stated that 350 million was ready to be invested yet only if the workers except less wages! Come on I doubt very much the bosses have taken less. We all understand if a job is not viable then changes have to be made but this could be done through VRs and restructuring ( lapsing out jobs when vacated ) not by reducing the take home pay of the workers. You know that playing one section of workers against another ensures that bosses get what they want. We have 2.5 million unemployed to take the job if you don't want it bollocks is alway laid out by those who won't be affected.
Basically by your reckoning, will all workers please doff their hats to the boss and be grateful to have a job.
Grow a pair!

[daveyeff]

Eventually there will be a deal. Only a fool wants to strike, reading some comments on here I think there are many fools. I hope our ballot result achieves a deal without us having to take any action. Gamesmanship is a dangerous game to play, both sides should be locked in a room and not let out until it is settled.

they did that the last time and acas was locked in there with them,,,,,and they came out with the ''deal of the century''

[daveyeff]

well maybe rm might take strength from whats happened at grangemouth,seems the union have rolled over and now seem willing to accept what mangement wanted in the first place.

the billionaire owner of that company hinted 8 months ago what his plans were,he says it wasnt cost effective running the company in britain as opposed to 'other' countries. and having to deal with union strife. in other words its cheaper to run his operation abroad. and preferrably without union intervention. he was waiting for a golden opertunity to present itself, and he got it when a new pay deal was put in. he's a greedy bastard private owner who thrive on this kind of shyte. best they can hope for is a new buyer.

[chrisj]

It is not about doffing your hat and all that...

It is about playing smart poker and knowing how far to push things.

There are many people working in very small businesses, cottage industries and many others where the boss might come in and say - sorry guys, we are not making enough money - some of you will have to stay away until things stabilise. I bet it happens everyday. I can remember some programmes on TV (maybe BBC and something to do with making windows).

The long and short of it is that they were presented with a survival package and some were sensible enough to accept that package and the rest along with the Union were more bothered about politics and the issues of them and us and brinkmanship.

At the end of the day, they have accepted the previous agreement wholeheartedly and are now in a worse situation because not only did they doff their hats, they went down on their knees as well and employer now more powerful.

I agree with another poster that all these might not even be enough to save all the jobs or even that the plant might be sold eventually.

The amount of money the bosses make is not an issue. A billionaire might be able to afford to pay people even when he is making a loss but then why bother investing if he can just give money to Charity.

I have read the agreement and proposals from Royal Mail and I am happy with that. If there is more then fine but I am ready to accept what is there without any further talks.

D2D payment - wow! Yes, I am better off doing the same job as a FT and getting less. I will rather nobody got anything and/or they keep their allowances; at least that will be clear and fair. Perhaps we might not have such an explosion in the damn things.

[jack]

Eventually there will be a deal. Only a fool wants to strike, reading some comments on here I think there are many fools. I hope our ballot result achieves a deal without us having to take any action. Gamesmanship is a dangerous game to play, both sides should be locked in a room and not let out until it is settled.

they did that the last time and acas was locked in there with them,,,,,and they came out with the ''deal of the century''

Well whatever other 'deal of the century/agreements etc they do come up with.... will the door still be left open for DOMs to continue to abuse the system as they so fondly have done in the past

[Son Of God]

Eventually there will be a deal. Only a fool wants to strike, reading some comments on here I think there are many fools. I hope our ballot result achieves a deal without us having to take any action. Gamesmanship is a dangerous game to play, both sides should be locked in a room and not let out until it is settled.

they did that the last time and acas was locked in there with them,,,,,and they came out with the ''deal of the century''

Well whatever other 'deal of the century/agreements etc they do come up with.... will the door still be left open for DOMs to continue to abuse the system as they so fondly have done in the past

Only if you let them.

[pcb]

How is it that when workers and unions say no it's POLITICAL yet when bosses say no it's about business?
Royal Mail is not a small business, so your analogy is not fit for purpose.

[chrisj]

I suppose Grangemouth is also not a small business but businesses are there to make profit and will all endeavour to cut cost when their desirable level of profit is not being achieved... (whether the desirable level is fair or not - that is a socio-economic issue).

Anyway, what part of 'its a different scenario (to RM) is hard to understand'.