To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

[krussel]

We should strike when our terms and conditions actually come under threat. Seen as they aren't, yet, what is the point of a strike?

When was the last time a full-timer was hired at your workplace? Zero-hour contracts are a reality, not something that *might* happen somewhere down the line.

In fairness we had a par timer made up to full time last month. However things have now changed over night with the owner structure.

I can see us being told that we are over paid compared to TNT and the like and that RM simply MUST impose a pay freeze to be able to survive.

I can see Moya on the screen droaning on about it with that almost about to cry look in her eyes, just like the privatisation speech.

We have to show strength and solidarity now to prove that we are not going to be submissive and beaten down.

[stokes11eg]

As most of you are aware TNT Post have an ongoing end to end operation in London and are about to start another in Manchester.
Some people think that Ofcom will ride to the rescue forcing TNT to deliver to every address making the whole thing uneconomic and TNT will disappear sharpish.
This will not happen.

It won't happen because the economics of setting up a rival USO would be unmanageable for any company and this would be deemed anti-competitive under relevant EU Directives and the only available alternative would be the right to establish a compensation fund where provision of the USO entails a net cost and represents an unfair financial burden on the Universal Service Provider.


Royal Mail staff should be very aware of the arguments the likes of TNT Post will put forward against paying into a compensation fund.

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binari ... es/TNT.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As to matters which are to be considered to be within Royal Mail’s control (paragraph 6.28), it should be expressly stated that wages and other employment conditions are within Royal Mail’s control. It gives cause for concern that OFCOM will undertake work to identify a reasonable rate of efficiency improvement. If set too low, this can result in competitors not investing (due to risk of regulatory restraints) and may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In principle we do not accept the presumption that Royal Mail’s costs are relatively fixed. The majority of cost is labour and so is, inherently, a variable cost. Royal Mail needs to be exposed to competition both operationally and on employment terms in order to produce the most efficient and flexible cost structure.

The current business model would represent an inappropriate baseline if it does not look forward and assume implementation of other employment models, more akin to those of its competitors. A changed Royal Mail business model could lead to another number staff and could lead to leaner (i.e. cheaper) labour costs and conditions.

Finally, in assessing the effect of delivery competition on the provision of the USO, potential changes to the USO must also be taken into account. If the extent of the USO is set at a level which is wider than it needs to be, from a consumer or EU legislation perspective, there can be no defensible argument that competition should be restrained in order to justify such additional and non-essential obligations.

These obligations would exist, ultimately, because of a political decision and not the assessment of the independent regulator. The guidance should make clear how any permitted reduction in the USO will be taken into account. It should not be limited to changes which are proposed (as stated in paragraph 6.63) as these may countenance a service which goes beyond the minimum needs of users and, thus, place an undue burden on Royal Mail and, thereby, its competitors

This is the reality of the situation.
TNT want both the USO and our terms and conditions reduced before they would consider making any contribution to the USO,Ofcom,Royal Mail and a Tory government are unlikely to put up much of a fight.

The only people left to fight for both are us and our union.
Strike on the 4th of November or roll over and accept the TNT model,It's that simple.

Fishtank you are so right. Before I started R.M many years ago, this is exactly what happened in my last job. One by one little parts of the job ( certain allowances for say being a second assistant etc) were taken away--I myself left and went to tribunal and won, but most folks stayed on and within weeks were so much worse of.Good luck to you all.

[krussel]

Good luck to you all.

Stokesy me old mate I have this awful feeling we wre going to need it

[mailman71]

Anyone who thinks that we will keep or improve our terms and conditions without a battle is living in dreamland.
Who would have thought 5 years ago we would be talking about zero hour contracts,working till3 or after on a Saturday and things like lapsing.
It's not just Royal Mail but nearly every type of workforce is having their terms and conditions scrutinised to see what can be cut.
This government seem to be standing by and letting theses company bosses do what they want.

[borgpicard]

tough, they want the business, let them carry it to ALL addresses,

[cloherty1976]

Anyone who thinks that we will keep or improve our terms and conditions without a battle is living in dreamland.
Who would have thought 5 years ago we would be talking about zero hour contracts,working till3 or after on a Saturday and things like lapsing.
It's not just Royal Mail but nearly every type of workforce is having their terms and conditions scrutinised to see what can be cut.
This government seem to be standing by and letting theses company bosses do what they want.

I know this site is mainly about delivery but do you think after 25 years I thought I would be doing midnight starts on Saturday and Sunday nights with no allowances then having 2 days off and then doing Wednesday ,Thursday ,Friday on 13 hour shifts with unpaid meal reliefs. You used to do your years and then get something easy but that is not how it is today. This is not a rant at all it's just how it is and that is a fact. These are agreed by the union and that's it , you just have to accept it and get on the best you can. All I am saying is this is the way things are and I would rather go to work with a smile on my face than being miserable worrying about tomorrow that may never happen. Life's to short..

[scirocco'r']

Is action being taken now because they are coming for the full time permanent staff with easier duties protected by seniority.
Staff who do not work every hour they are paid.
Perhaps if a significant number of OPG's lifted their heads from the trough and stood together with other less fortunate staff the overall wage bill would be lower the company leaner and already more profitable and this whole mess could have been avoided.
Also before anyone suggests seniority has been earned, decades of carrying a half full bag and then a bundle on second delivery for full time wages tells its own story.

[wannabeek]

Life's too short to worry about tomorrow? There are plenty of lambs going into the local abattoir every day thinking like that - and they have that same happy smile on their face as they go in, too!

[banner18]

So we want an guard abolished as part of the strike mandate? All these things have been happening before this point and we haven't been balloted so what's the difference?

I can see the point about wanting more time for the protection of t and c's but it is still 'I'm alright jack' thing. It will divide those who will be leaving or close to leaving in that period and screw the rest. Only a deal that protects all employees fairly would be right and isn't plausible because it would have to be one that lasted forever.

Everything that has been happening in the last 10 or so years has been preparing the company for this privatisation. At every point we rolled over and accepted the core of their plans. What will be different with this action?

[Dozen]

Do TNT's workers have any union representation at all?

Surely in the long-term, our fight is only as strong as the fight TNT's workforce is willing to put up, and vice-versa. If Royal Mail and TNT's top brass want a race to the bottom, then RM posties and TNT workers should be striking together in support of a race to the top. This would be both TNT and Moya Greene's worst nightmare come true. You wonder why TNT's staff haven't been striking for terms that compete with ours! After all whether we're in a red or an orange uniform, as workers we're all after the same basic improvements. Dividing us between competitors is an attempt to undermine the power of the workforce, but in reality what is there to stop us from joining together and becoming even stronger... ?

[dvbuk55]

As for who in the workplace have they come for:

25 hours doing 39+ hours a week with no chance of being made up.
Mail centres closing with 1000's losing jobs.
Workloads becoming impossible.
Bullying in deliveries, processing, distribution and even customer services. (I am sure I am missing some sections as well)

This is OUR union and OUR Royal Mail! We have a strong position now lets stand strong and win what we all deserve!

Rant Over

Well really you have shot the argument down with the above. All those things have happened DESPITE the union and the workforce and so what is going to change with RM having a different master or in fact no master at all in effect.

[cloherty1976]

Do TNT's workers have any union representation at all?

Correct me if I am wrong aren't ukmail represented by the cwu?

[fishtank]

So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.
F. Scott Fitzgerald

Every day the union fights to maintain our standard of living,every day reps fight to defend members from attacks,every day our employer attempts to chip away at our our terms and conditions and every day the government thinks up new ways to undermine workers rights.

Every now and again the members are asked to make a sacrifice to strengthen the union's position,to row a little harder and make some ground,the last time was over 4 years ago and lasted two days for the majority of the country.

If you think it's sensible to stop rowing and let the current take you backwards then you'll soon find yourself lost at sea.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Banner18.

The Government do not own 60% of RM.
They retained 38%, Which means that one single person or company can gain control.
They will also sell off the rest in the not too distant future.

You want specific points to argue over? Well, look at what happened in every other privatised company. Staffing levels and T&C's smashed. It never happens overnight. It always takes time. They slowly chip away at everything.
Even TNT know what is going to happen. Hell, as Fishtank demonstrates in the first post, they recommend it as a business plan.
That's why you have to start and defend what you've got BEFORE they piss on you and tell you it's raining.

RM have proposed a deal which has in it an, as yet, undefined Industrial Stability clause. What are the chances it is for the benefit of employees?
It is a no strike clause. If we agree to it, and can't strike for it's duration (which RM will want to perpetually extend), then we would never have the chance to fight in the future.

And if, as I suspect, you don't want to strike now just to save a few quid, then that really is one of the most selfish and short sighted views I have ever had the misfortune to hear.
And, even sadder, you're not the only one.

[dvbuk55]

If you think it's sensible to stop rowing and let the current take you backwards then you'll soon find yourself lost at sea.

It's not sensible at all to stop rowing, it makes far more sense to dump the rowing boat and get a bigger motorised version with a 50mm cannon on the front and to stop pretending you're making a difference with a leaky boat and one oar.