Royal Mail bonuses smack of private sector excess

[cloherty1976]

I thought yesterday I was crammiepostie

[cyclemech1]

I respect everybodys views on this forum and enjoy the cut and thrust of debate and the banter too, but if anyone thinks that the ordinary postie is going to be better off after privatisation they really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

RM are trying to fool you (via the CWU) with their 'no changes to your terms and conditions, except when agreed with the CWU, for at least three years'. Once privatisation has happened, they will say to the CWU that they will offer a lump sum to you all to change your T&Cs. CWU will have no option but to put it to you in a ballot and all the short term 'show me the money' types will vote to accept it.

In one fell swoop, you will be on worse pay and conditions and, in the words of my old DOM, "If you don't like it there's the door, there are 50 people on the dole who would do your job for minimum wage".

The ONLY people who would be better off would be the senior executives and the shareholders with their dividends, including perhaps the 'free' shares they are offering you, although the money you would make on them would NEVER make up the money you would lose.

So please, wake up and smell the coffee before its too late!

[Brain Fury]

I respect everybodys views on this forum and enjoy the cut and thrust of debate and the banter too, but if anyone thinks that the ordinary postie is going to be better off after privatisation they really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

RM are trying to fool you (via the CWU) with their 'no changes to your terms and conditions, except when agreed with the CWU, for at least three years'. Once privatisation has happened, they will say to the CWU that they will offer a lump sum to you all to change your T&Cs. CWU will have no option but to put it to you in a ballot and all the short term 'show me the money' types will vote to accept it.

In one fell swoop, you will be on worse pay and conditions and, in the words of my old DOM, "If you don't like it there's the door, there are 50 people on the dole who would do your job for minimum wage".

The ONLY people who would be better off would be the senior executives and the shareholders with their dividends, including perhaps the 'free' shares they are offering you, although the money you would make on them would NEVER make up the money you would lose.

So please, wake up and smell the coffee before its too late!

I can't quite see how RM are trying to fool anybody. Wouldn't they be doing exactly what they have proposed - only changing the terms and conditions with agreement from the CWU? Your concern seems to be that the majority of CWU members would agree. If that was the case what's the problem?

[cloherty1976]

Last 2 posts shows the difference in opinions and their is not a right or wrong answer and only time will tell how bad or good things can be. I still think the ballot won't be like the consultative ballot as just have aloof at the return for starters

[cyclemech1]

I respect everybodys views on this forum and enjoy the cut and thrust of debate and the banter too, but if anyone thinks that the ordinary postie is going to be better off after privatisation they really are living in cloud cuckoo land.

RM are trying to fool you (via the CWU) with their 'no changes to your terms and conditions, except when agreed with the CWU, for at least three years'. Once privatisation has happened, they will say to the CWU that they will offer a lump sum to you all to change your T&Cs. CWU will have no option but to put it to you in a ballot and all the short term 'show me the money' types will vote to accept it.

In one fell swoop, you will be on worse pay and conditions and, in the words of my old DOM, "If you don't like it there's the door, there are 50 people on the dole who would do your job for minimum wage".

The ONLY people who would be better off would be the senior executives and the shareholders with their dividends, including perhaps the 'free' shares they are offering you, although the money you would make on them would NEVER make up the money you would lose.

So please, wake up and smell the coffee before its too late!

I can't quite see how RM are trying to fool anybody. Wouldn't they be doing exactly what they have proposed - only changing the terms and conditions with agreement from the CWU? Your concern seems to be that the majority of CWU members would agree. If that was the case what's the problem?

The problem is that most posties, who are not as clued up as you or I perhaps, would be giving away their T&Cs for a relative pittance, and would soon live to regret it. Unfortunately, even if you told them they would, in my experience, STILL do it!

[Danelectro]

Denial of fact

In this form of denial, someone avoids a fact by lying. This lying can take the form of an outright falsehood (commission), leaving out certain details to tailor a story (omission), or by falsely agreeing to something (assent, also referred to as "yessing" behavior). Someone who is in denial of fact is typically using lies to avoid facts they think may be painful to themselves or others.

Denial of impact

Denial of impact involves a person's avoiding thinking about or understanding the harms of his or her behavior has caused to self or others, i.e. denial of the consequences. Doing this enables that person to avoid feeling a sense of guilt and it can prevent him or her from developing remorse or empathy for others. Denial of impact reduces or eliminates a sense of pain or harm from poor decisions.

Denial of denial
This can be a difficult concept for many people to identify with in themselves, but is a major barrier to changing hurtful behaviors. Denial of denial involves thoughts, actions and behaviors which bolster confidence that nothing needs to be changed in one's personal behavior. This form of denial typically overlaps with all of the other forms of denial, but involves more self-delusion. Denial at this level can have significant consequences both personally and at a societal level.

[osgoody1970]

so it would appear, moya,s gift was'nt enough to buy a property in london, she had to put over a million of her own to puchase the property, if she has that kind of money, why are we giving her a gift of a quarter of a million pounds, her pay rise this year is a 33% rise, to boot the royal mail in its wisdom, has seen fit to pour 90 million into the directors pension pot, whilst us poor posties make do with cuts in our pension, it beggars belief wot this lot will do next!!!

[Brain Fury]

so it would appear, moya,s gift was'nt enough to buy a property in london, she had to put over a million of her own to puchase the property, if she has that kind of money, why are we giving her a gift of a quarter of a million pounds, her pay rise this year is a 33% rise, to boot the royal mail in its wisdom, has seen fit to pour 90 million into the directors pension pot, whilst us poor posties make do with cuts in our pension, it beggars belief wot this lot will do next!!!

How much has RM put into the main "pension pot" - quite a bit more than £90 million. Also I think you'll find the senior managers pension scheme has been closed - whereas our scheme hasn't been.

[UnhappyGremlin]

so it would appear, moya,s gift was'nt enough to buy a property in london, she had to put over a million of her own to puchase the property, if she has that kind of money, why are we giving her a gift of a quarter of a million pounds, her pay rise this year is a 33% rise, to boot the royal mail in its wisdom, has seen fit to pour 90 million into the directors pension pot, whilst us poor posties make do with cuts in our pension, it beggars belief wot this lot will do next!!!

How much has RM put into the main "pension pot" - quite a bit more than £90 million. Also I think you'll find the senior managers pension scheme has been closed - whereas our scheme hasn't been.

True.
But they are altering it (assuming they ignore us as expected) so they don't have to keep up with the extra payments, which will allow for increased profits if they privatise the company.

[fishtank]

How much has RM put into the main "pension pot" - quite a bit more than £90 million.

And how much did they pay into it from 1990 until 2003 while we were still paying into it.
I'll give you a clue,somewhere between £0 and £0.

Also I think you'll find the senior managers pension scheme has been closed - whereas our scheme hasn't been.

Yes it has.
Now senior management are paid lump sums every year in lieu of pension.
Last year Moya received £200,000 instead.
My heart is bleeding.

[Brain Fury]

How much has RM put into the main "pension pot" - quite a bit more than £90 million.

And how much did they pay into it from 1990 until 2003 while we were still paying into it.
I'll give you a clue,somewhere between £0 and £0.

Also I think you'll find the senior managers pension scheme has been closed - whereas our scheme hasn't been.

Yes it has.
Now senior management are paid lump sums every year in lieu of pension.
Last year Moya received £200,000 instead.
My heart is bleeding.

Oh yes I agree about the pension contributions but you know why - so that RM could make more profit that could be creamed off straight into the Government coffers. I've always said that our pensions were wrecked by successive Governments and complacent trustees. I think the decision to combine the section C scheme with A & B had a lot to do with it and I have always been suspicious about how we were suddenly all living longer as if it changed overnight. Incidentally I saw a report the other day that our children will have shorter lifespans because they are more unhealthy - I look forward to that being reflected in the actuarial tables for calculating pension benefits.

I wasn't asking anyone to feel sorry for Moya or senior managers. I was just suggesting that the idea that senior managers pensions haven't been affected is wrong. There is a lot to criticise RM about but when every issue is presented totally black and white - front-line good, management bad - it rather loses any point.

[osgoody1970]

are you seriously making a comparison of 400 million paid into 150.000 posties pensions with 90 million paid into twelve directors pensions, i hope not!!!!

[aiden01]

starting to think hes a senior manager

[spoodoo]

Every post of his sounds like a dom

[fishtank]

Every post of his sounds like a dom

He's made it clear from the start he's a manager and I respect him for that.
I don't see what difference that makes.
I'm arguing with his point of view not his job description.
There are posties that hold exactly the same views as he does.