A Workers Co-Operative....A real future for us all?

[Brain Fury]

So do you think this cooperative of people working when and how they wanted would get a licence?

No posties that have been in the business for any decent length of time would be so stupid to put forward the idea of working when and how they wanted.
We all would do as we do know, but without the bullying & harassment, and the appointed board members/workers representatives voted aboard would run the company. Any major/significant decisions could be voted on.
Why would the licence be removed for a new owner?

Sorry I hadn't realised that you meant that RM would become a workers cooperative. I thought you were advocating the RM workers set up their own local cooperatives as an alternative to RM. Of course the Government expects to collect £2 - 3 billion from the IPO so they would have to waive this and give the company to the employees? I'm sorry but I can't see any Government being willing to do this

And in terms of people working when and how they wanted, I was a bit fooled by posts talking about delivering mail "to fit in with my lifestyle and not royal mail policy" and it working "as long as 6 day service is not mandatory". And you have to admit that given the stick that the CWU gets on this board , the idea that workers would be happy to leave the running of the company to elected representatives seems a bit far fetched. It all sounds a bit "Animal Farm".

It's a radical solution but I think a cooperative postal operator would need to be built from the ground up not the result of bloodless coup of workers striking their way to be allowed by a capitalist Government to take over the means of production.

I think you need to calm down.


Whenever someone makes a comment, you seem to read between the lines and fill in whatever madness pops into your head, then rant at them about it.
I have never mentioned anything about the Government giving up £3bn and giving the company to us. I have no idea where you get that from.
Whilst people give the union stick on here, I would be quite happy to let elected representatives have control, as there would have to be policies and processes involved. They wouldn't have total autonomy, hence the vote on major issues I mentioned.

Actually it's you that seems to be misreading things. I genuinely didn't (and still don't) understand if you are advocating RM becoming a workers cooperative which would require the Government to give the company to it's employees or if you are talking about setting up one or more cooperatives to compete with Royal Mail. That's an interesting idea. I'm not clear exactly how it would work in terms of a national network but that's beside the point. I'm not ranting at all just trying to understand what's being suggested. If it's at all sensible idea it ought to be able to stand some questions.

I was more referring to us buying it, or at least a controlling share.
But that won't happen, so it doesn't hold water as an idea in that sense.
A successful company is successful, irrelevant of ownership. If we can make vast profits in private hands as they seem to be suggesting, then they can make those same profits whilst in public hands.

Thanks for clarifying - so a sort of "management buyout" - or rather an employee buyout. It's an interesting idea although probably a bit late in the day to start trying to find someone to lend us £2-3 billion. Not sure I'd be prepared to invest my hard earned savings that way.

I honestly don't think we can continue as a public sector organisation competing with the private sector. And the fundamental issue is that I don't believe this or any potential future Government wants to bothered with Royal Mail any more.

[Brain Fury]

who is going to benefit most out of the sale, though ?

The Government. They get £2 -3 billion they otherwise wouldn't have and rid themselves of the responsibility for Royal Mail.

Investors will only benefit if the business continues to make a profit and the share price is healthy i.e the business is successful.

[borders]

there is a lot of Governments around the world , that " cant be bothered " as you say with their Postal Services. In the USA, Germany, Spain, Greece, Kenya, Malawi, South Africa, India, Uruguay, Peru, Brazil, Canada and other countries, postal workers have gone out on strike in the last year to demand wage increases, to defend benefits and to oppose privatization.
Privatisation is more than the Government " cant be bothered ". so they could not be bothered with the Railways, Utilities, BT etc . Under privatization, the bosses would aim to eliminate unions and reduce workers’ wages and benefits. the wealthy at this moment in time, are reluctant to invest to create more commodities for sale, postal delivery and other services historically controlled by government offer a place where exploitation of workers can generate real profits. this is ideologically driven and the capitalists are taking advantage of austerity to raid the public sector, searching for opportunities to exploit labor and make profits.

[Brain Fury]

there is a lot of Governments around the world , that " cant be bothered " as you say with their Postal Services. In the USA, Germany, Spain, Greece, Kenya, Malawi, South Africa, India, Uruguay, Peru, Brazil, Canada and other countries, postal workers have gone out on strike in the last year to demand wage increases, to defend benefits and to oppose privatization.
Privatisation is more than the Government " cant be bothered ". so they could not be bothered with the Railways, Utilities, BT etc . Under privatization, the bosses would aim to eliminate unions and reduce workers’ wages and benefits. the wealthy at this moment in time, are reluctant to invest to create more commodities for sale, postal delivery and other services historically controlled by government offer a place where exploitation of workers can generate real profits. this is ideologically driven and the capitalists are taking advantage of austerity to raid the public sector, searching for opportunities to exploit labor and make profits.

I never said that was the only reason. There's no doubt that this Government is ideologically driven to reduce the public sector and wants the money that privatisation will bring. However, I really believe that years of actual and threatened industrial action has convinced them that they don't need the hassle. Make it somebody else's problem.

[borders]

"cant be bothered" were the words I picked up on. conjures up the thought that Dave and George were sat around the table the other day , I cant be bothered with this RM malarkey, hey lets just privatise them.
its the constant battle between Capital and Labour that has been waged for many, many years and without repeating myself the benefits that are gained by Capital through privatisation.

[Danelectro]

I really believe that years of actual and threatened industrial action has convinced them that they don't need the hassle. Make it somebody else's problem.

we havent been on strike for 4 years.

[Brain Fury]

I really believe that years of actual and threatened industrial action has convinced them that they don't need the hassle. Make it somebody else's problem.

we havent been on strike for 4 years.

4 whole years - well done. If it's only every four years that's still one per parliament. Something else to pressurise the Government of the day. They don't need it and they can get paid for getting rid of the responsibility. For them - what's not to like?