Information

[TrueBlueTerrier]

are doughts are traitors and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt. wolfie smith I think.

Or Popeye the sailor man.

Our doubts are traitors,
And make us lose the good we oft might win
By fearing to attempt.
William Shakespeare, "Measure for Measure", Act 1 scene 4

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Members now need to decide ! Support the arguements of the past or fight for your future. There is no longer a fence to sit on !!! Remember priviatisation will mean less terms and conditions in order to pay the share holders the profits.

Time to fight is coming .

I won't be sitting on the fence, we don't have one outside our DO its a stone wall.

However, I really hope no-one at HQ keeps pushing your line about arguments of the past, because it will alienate members and it will piss a lot of people off. We can both completely support the Union in this current dispute and question its past , that's the essence of democracy and it helps engage members and if I may be so bold, strengthens the Union.

Sorry if that offends, its not meant as an attack merely an opinion. However, many thanks for all the information and opinions you do post it is greatly appreciated by everyone on RMC, of that I also have no doubt.

[k979aaa]

Dingo
Can you elaborate on how you see the first engagements of infighting taking place and possible time scales.

Lincox lots will happen but my predictions is that the CWU will hold an special conference in late July and a strike action ballot in September to defeat privatisation , the attack on pensions ,the setting up an alternative work force on similar pay scale as The TNT staff on 7:10 per hour to deliver the parcels , tracked , PS and growth in unaddressed items , individual performance standards and more flexibility inclUding removing duty holders to Create absorption. In addition Royal Mail's pay offer over 3 years is dependent on the union surrendering on pensions and agreeing further modernisation proposals.

We have ad's up here for royalmail same day who are owner driver's in the local paper in their recruitment drive.

[mandelsons_toenail]

I've already had guys say to me "I won't be striking this time"

Do these people not realise that we are literally fighting for our jobs here?



I'm thinking of a gate meeting, but why bother who will turn up?

Wait 5 years, I told you so........

[UnhappyGremlin]

I've already had guys say to me "I won't be striking this time"

Do these people not realise that we are literally fighting for our jobs here?



I'm thinking of a gate meeting, but why bother who will turn up?

Wait 5 years, I told you so........

At which point the union will be blamed, rather than those that refused to fight for their jobs/pay/pensions/T&C's etc., as "they didn't do enough".
I don't want to strike, as most people don't. It is a last resort, but if RM won't listen and continue their actions, what other choice do we really have?

[Cut Off King]

I've already had guys say to me "I won't be striking this time"

Do these people not realise that we are literally fighting for our jobs here?



I'm thinking of a gate meeting, but why bother who will turn up?

Wait 5 years, I told you so........

At which point the union will be blamed, rather than those that refused to fight for their jobs/pay/pensions/T&C's etc., as "they didn't do enough".
I don't want to strike, as most people don't. It is a last resort, but if RM won't listen and continue their actions, what other choice do we really have?

Think of it from the other side, people have been promised milk & honey in each of the last three agreements, they have been urged to vote YES by the union, but the reality is that things have got worse & worse !
How many times can you offer goodies for all, but delivery a nasty sting in the tail and expect people to trust you ?

Fool me once, shame on you....
Fool me for the last 10 years, and I'll become cynical.

I hope the CWU prove me wrong, but I'm not holding my breath

[feduppostie]

indeed we have gone out over and over again

most notably last time when we faithfully filed out the doors only to be called back in to be told it was sorted then to be sold down the river for the 'deal of the century'

the union bigwigs have sadly now got the reputation of lining their own nests at the cost of the membership

the rank and file still stand solid because of their local reps and the good they do but I believe have no confidence in the union at the top

add to that the vast numbers of part time staff who don't even join the union as they don't expect to be in this job in 2 years time, this means a very big mountain to climb

really if the union bigbods care about their members they would resign to allow new energised blood to fight on our behalf

[nataddick]

Fedup - Can I take it that you are going to stand for election ?

[Lincox]

At face value and knowing that change was inevitable, BT2010 could have been a reasonable if not perfect deal had CWU not left the door open for Royal Mail to walk through and make their own interpretation to our detriment on many of the parts that made up BT 2010.
This time there must be no room for argument, misinterpretation, and no wishy washy joint agreements. Only cast in stone words that can not be misconstrued, clauses that impel managers to act accordingly, and very strong sanctions against those that will not. I will not vote favourably for any kind of words that are meaningless and can be taken many ways. So CWU, get it right first time and you may empower the membership to follow. Anything less and your support will disintegrate very quickly.

[Cut Off King]

At face value and knowing that change was inevitable, BT2010 could have been a reasonable if not perfect deal had CWU not left the door open for Royal Mail to walk through and make their own interpretation to our detriment on many of the parts that made up BT 2010.
This time there must be no room for argument, misinterpretation, and no wishy washy joint agreements. Only cast in stone words that can not be misconstrued, clauses that impel managers to act accordingly, and very strong sanctions against those that will not. I will not vote favourably for any kind of words that are meaningless and can be taken many ways. So CWU, get it right first time and you may empower the membership to follow. Anything less and your support will disintegrate very quickly.

The problem being that we all know reps who thought it was a bad deal, however, after being summoned to the "Billy & Dave Roadshow" they changed their minds and asked everybody to vote YES. then after the deal was done, they admitted that the deal was bad after all. They just towed the party line to avoid trouble.

And we're stuck with the result.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

At face value and knowing that change was inevitable, BT2010 could have been a reasonable if not perfect deal had CWU not left the door open for Royal Mail to walk through and make their own interpretation to our detriment on many of the parts that made up BT 2010.
This time there must be no room for argument, misinterpretation, and no wishy washy joint agreements. Only cast in stone words that can not be misconstrued, clauses that impel managers to act accordingly, and very strong sanctions against those that will not. I will not vote favourably for any kind of words that are meaningless and can be taken many ways. So CWU, get it right first time and you may empower the membership to follow. Anything less and your support will disintegrate very quickly.

The problem being that we all know reps who thought it was a bad deal, however, after being summoned to the "Billy & Dave Roadshow" they changed their minds and asked everybody to vote YES. then after the deal was done, they admitted that the deal was bad after all. They just towed the party line to avoid trouble.

And we're stuck with the result.

Yes the road to Nirvana, was diverted to Damascus and we ended up in Baghdad.

[clashcityrocker]

I'm still not sure what exactly was bad about BT2010.

Ft is right that those tasked with implementing it didn't (and don't) understand it and those tasked with overseeing it didn't do a good enough job.
But the actual agreement........still seems fine to me.

[Lincox]

I agree also Clash. The major problem was that it did not give the savings that Royal Mail wanted, which as we all know this agreement was never worded to include savings, but this was the only motivation behind the agreement as far as Moya Greene is concerned.

[dvbuk55]

What was wrong with BT2010 :

Poor communication
Poor guidelines
Inequality between FT and PT
Poor pay scale on annual increases over the 3 year span
Lack of planned modernisation to encompass every office within the 3 year agreement resulting in a third of offices having received no payment
Ridiculous lack of control OF elements of the agreement, such as FT/PT ratio, use of required equipment on delivery
Ignoring the bullying and harassment reported continuously since the inception of BT2010
The close liaison with RM on joint statements which has alienated a large number of unionists

This most certainly was NOT "The Deal of the Century"

[silly suffolk]

I'm still not sure what exactly was bad about BT2010.

Ft is right that those tasked with implementing it didn't (and don't) understand it and those tasked with overseeing it didn't do a good enough job.
But the actual agreement........still seems fine to me.

mail centre rationalisation part of it isn't a mucher.