Ask not what the union can do for you..

[dvbuk55]

The union is trying to get the best deal what the bloody hell do you think their doing?

Posturing at conference for the cheers and applause of the converted. The rolling strikes in 2009 are we talking about - or the two day capitulation on a promissory note that was worthless, for an interim agreement that is still, judging from the ongoing negotiations, STILL interim. Take off those rose tinted glasses and see the world as it really is from a delivery aspect not from a MC because believe me we are not singing from the same hymn sheet.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

the rolling strikes worked well?? they were the best idea the unions ever had. we had them beat.

Really? and look where we are now - does it look like we have them beat? Rhetoric is cheap at conference but it's in the actuality that it counts. The union is a shambles and has been for a long time, it is no longer a whole but a series of unconnected units and until such time that every single member, every rep, branch and union official sings from the same hymn sheet AND BELIEVES it - we'll never be strong enough.

That was not the fault of the members, or of the rolling strikes though. Thats a symptom of a poor strategic overview, and a worsening disconnect, and institutional self preservation.

I think the rolling strikes worked well for what they were and certainly helped stem any creep back based on financial costs it also helped keep some of the public sympathy on our side on the days we did work. What the CWU did with the pressure that was building will always be a matter of contention, but again that was a strategic decision and does not take anything from what could be a good tactic in industrial actions.

It does however have at least 3 major flaws.
1. It probably lengthens the span of any dispute even if the number of strikes may be lower than an all out.
2. If the Union steps up to an all out strike after a period of rolling strikes, then its likely that the strike will collapse quicker than if we went straight out.
3. Its more difficult for the Union heads to get an idea of the influence the strikes have had, and its therefore fairly difficult to make strategic plans.

[pcb]

You are old enough not to be taken in by rhetoric. It's for the managers who are reporting back to Mora what conference has said and the general feeling. But carry on I'm sure RM don't monitor this medium. So tell me how many MCs have closed, I'll tell you 23!
Don't start spouting how hard done by you are, you get paid for the job you do, bullying happens in MCs too and targets are always changed. by the way I never get to go home early because I choose to work in Processing. I digress.
Let's face it when the remainder of the revisions go in and delivery start at the proscribed times RM will realise that they relied upon the goodwill of delivery to clear their workload.
But keep bad mouthing the union because you obviously can do better, funny but never see you putting these salient points to conference. if there is such a ground swell then use it and get things done!

[dvbuk55]

You are old enough not to be taken in by rhetoric. It's for the managers who are reporting back to Mora what conference has said and the general feeling. But carry on I'm sure RM don't monitor this medium. So tell me how many MCs have closed, I'll tell you 23!
Don't start spouting how hard done by you are, you get paid for the job you do, bullying happens in MCs too and targets are always changed. by the way I never get to go home early because I choose to work in Processing. I digress.
Let's face it when the remainder of the revisions go in and delivery start at the proscribed times RM will realise that they relied upon the goodwill of delivery to clear their workload.
But keep bad mouthing the union because you obviously can do better, funny but never see you putting these salient points to conference. if there is such a ground swell then use it and get things done!

Its Moya, and I really don't care if they monitor this medium or not or who else monitors it - you're right to say that I'm too long in the tooth to be taken in by rhetoric. I'm well aware of how many MCs have closed and how over manned - and I never get to go home early either and neither does all the delivery offices who have undergone modernisation, something you'll be totally unfamiliar with. You keep bulling them up pcb - because it's people who keep SAYING they're doing a great job has caused the situation we are in. As for reorganisation of the union - even Billy has jumped on the bandwagon and if a few more of the glitterati get on board perhaps there may well be change.

[pcb]

Look its not about flanneling them up as they are old and bald enough (and well paid) to take the crap they sometimes deserve.
As for not going theough modernisation I tend to differ, over the last 6 years we have lost around 100 jobs due to Modernisation! We have had to change shift patterns and increase our workload
MTTs, LSMs, packet sortation, DSA, flat sorting to another MC, shall I go on?
I understand the impact of modernisation and its impact upon RM as a whole unlike yourself.
Billy's speech at the end of conference was one of his best and its through this strategy he laid down that the top table are starting to act together. hopefully they will be able to address our issues but like all negotiations its about give and take so there will be points we will not want but if overall its better than what we got with the future looking bleak its better than nothing.
By the way CBC hedge fund seem to be the threat from the ConDems, should have known the Tories would be spiteful and childish in their approach.

[dvbuk55]

Look its not about flanneling them up as they are old and bald enough (and well paid) to take the crap they sometimes deserve.
As for not going theough modernisation I tend to differ, over the last 6 years we have lost around 100 jobs due to Modernisation! We have had to change shift patterns and increase our workload
MTTs, LSMs, packet sortation, DSA, flat sorting to another MC, shall I go on?
I understand the impact of modernisation and its impact upon RM as a whole unlike yourself.
Billy's speech at the end of conference was one of his best and its through this strategy he laid down that the top table are starting to act together. hopefully they will be able to address our issues but like all negotiations its about give and take so there will be points we will not want but if overall its better than what we got with the future looking bleak its better than nothing.
By the way CBC hedge fund seem to be the threat from the ConDems, should have known the Tories would be spiteful and childish in their approach.

Pcb, we aren't a million miles apart we both want change within the union but I want it NOW before it's too late. I don't want to be bogged down with chattering of ifs and maybes. You have to be in delivery to know just how bad the last 3 years have been and as for modernisation - it isn't it's a cost cutting exercise in the extreme. As for giving and taking when its been time to give there seems to be a reluctance on RMs part to give - colleague share, bonus payments, overtime.

Privatisation is a serious threat but there are obstacles for any potential purchaser to overcome not least of all the price - somebody mentioned a 963 mil takeover for some firm or other - well that wouldn't be nearly enough for what the government have in mind. Then there is the workforce which at 160,000 is not inconsiderable and not easy to get rid of in any great numbers initially.

[pcb]

With the present situation the ConDems are going to find it difficult to get their IPO of the mark.
The firm CVC are asset strippers so they will know how to dismantle to reduce running cost, they would also be able to bat off OFCOM due to OFCOM having not a clue when considering the last 2 reports they published.
Remember the ConDems have already today talked about this firm.

[dvbuk55]

With the present situation the ConDems are going to find it difficult to get their IPO of the mark.
The firm CBC are asset strippers so they will know how to dismantle to reduce running cost, they would also be able to bat off OFCOM due to OFCOM having not a clue when considering the last 2 reports they published.
Remember the ConDems have already today talked about this firm.

What value do you think RM is worth and how much do you think they'll take and is it a total sell off or a floatation of a part or whole. It will take some time to dismantle the organisation but the longer the union waits the easier it's going to be for a buyer to asset strip. Lets paint a scenario of militant action and ask who would be willing to take it on.

[pcb]

Last valuation was 2.5bn to 3bn.
Hedge funds don't mess around they are geared up to maximise the biggest profit as soon as possible. If ConDems can't float then they will go with one of these who won't take long convincing Ofcom of their viable working model. Which will obviously mean cuts across all and selling off therofitable parts.

[hans solo]

me me me i will go tmrrw get the cash up front im off
and in deliveries there are thousands like me which is why they dont offer us vr no one left
shut the door on the way out
f**k your mail centres you took the extra cash in 2010 agreement which scuppered the strike actions and deliveries
reap what you sow

[Tman]

[quote="
f**k your mail centres you took the extra cash in 2010 agreement which scuppered the strike actions and deliveries
reap what you sow

And there you have it in a nutshell. Nothing to do with "Billy and Dave", conference, the CWU, it's hierarchy, reps or anything else, but the 2013 version of workplace solidarity.
And posties wonder why they get stuffed by RM every time.....

[pcb]

Han Solo: obviously you don't get the meaning of solidarity, if you remember there are more delivery than processing by a huge majority and it was a democratic vote that took place. Either way Processing did not swing the vote it was delivery so don't get childish and start spouting your self centred crap! however your attitude does sums up the problem with today's society.
I don't think that when your revisions goes in that you will be refusing your bonus? Did not think so!

[fishtank]

f**k your mail centres you took the extra cash in 2010 agreement which scuppered the strike actions and deliveries
reap what you sow

And there you have it in a nutshell. Nothing to do with "Billy and Dave", conference, the CWU, it's hierarchy, reps or anything else, but the 2013 version of workplace solidarity.
And posties wonder why they get stuffed by RM every time.....

The only thing you have in a nutshell is the opinion of one person...at the time he posted it...about one particular issue.
It's a fairly lonely nutshell and a huge leap to go from that to wondering why or even if posties get stuffed by RM every time.

[dvbuk55]

I don't for one minute blame mail centres for the BT 2010 fiasco, I lay the blame on the unions overarching need to get a positive vote and even more those who couldn't be bothered to vote at all.

[Tman]

The only thing you have in a nutshell is the opinion of one person...at the time he posted it...about one particular issue.

But sadly he's not alone. It's a common enough theme on here.
When we were called out by the postie union in yet another of those "how red is my bike" type RM vs CWU disputes ( ie FA to do with my pay and conditions) it was disconcerting to find out many OPGs had attended rather than strike. We lost money for others who clearly didn't feel the need to fight.
Part timers don't tend to strike, agency staff never do and F/Ters do if they want to or feel the need, so clearly it's not a one-off opinion stated on a one-off issue. No longer any real work-force solidarity among those who need it the most.