Long and Shorts

[milscott]

Work to your time on Mon and Tues thats what I do and then its only the early starters that will get asked to starburst

How do you work to your time if there isn't enough work to do?

make sure you have your full 40 minute break , dont come in early and do the job properly .
Leave the office at 9.30 and back at 2pm and STRESS FREE
Our walk is 4 hours 30 plus our finishing time on Monday and tuesday is 30 mins earlier than the other days

It is against the law to work more than 4.15 hours without a toilet relief

I was in work at 5.45 this morning and had my first leak at 11.15 - how long do you think I'll get - do you think there'll be some leniency because I don't have a watch?

why should we be out off the office for 5 hours without the use off a toilet treating us like animals pishing behind trees in bottles in back off van they make these duty s up without knowing the laws after 4.15 hours by law should i want, the use off a toilet which is back at the office not in a bookies or behind a tree on my walk

[dvbuk55]

how can it be a fair vote when union rep is giving is personal opion and the flock follow he should read about what a union rep duties are before he opens mouth, in this case coz off it vote has to be void

No it doesn't have to be void at all - take BT2010, the circus that surrounded the vote was the opinion of the CWU, it was voted in against the opinion of many but it wasn't and isn't void.

[dvbuk55]

Work to your time on Mon and Tues thats what I do and then its only the early starters that will get asked to starburst

How do you work to your time if there isn't enough work to do?

make sure you have your full 40 minute break , dont come in early and do the job properly .
Leave the office at 9.30 and back at 2pm and STRESS FREE
Our walk is 4 hours 30 plus our finishing time on Monday and tuesday is 30 mins earlier than the other days

It is against the law to work more than 4.15 hours without a toilet relief

I was in work at 5.45 this morning and had my first leak at 11.15 - how long do you think I'll get - do you think there'll be some leniency because I don't have a watch?

why should we be out off the office for 5 hours without the use off a toilet treating us like animals pishing behind trees in bottles in back off van they make these duty s up without knowing the laws after 4.15 hours by law should i want, the use off a toilet which is back at the office not in a bookies or behind a tree on my walk

There should be toilet facilities shown on the walk log but it certainly doesn't need to be back at the office.

[clashcityrocker]

Work to your time on Mon and Tues thats what I do and then its only the early starters that will get asked to starburst

How do you work to your time if there isn't enough work to do?

make sure you have your full 40 minute break , dont come in early and do the job properly .
Leave the office at 9.30 and back at 2pm and STRESS FREE
Our walk is 4 hours 30 plus our finishing time on Monday and tuesday is 30 mins earlier than the other days

I don't start early. I take my full 40 minute meal relief prior to leaving the office. I use the correct equipment for the duty.
Yet today because the IPS was finished early we were able to leave approx 30 minutes early.
Due to the low volume of mail/packets the duty took 30 minutes less than usual.
Consequently I was finished 1 hour early.

[jobies]

Seemingly they can make you work more than 39 hours per week as CWU have it in duty options.I was told on Thursday after union rep attended area meeting with managers.
Find it hard to believe that you can be paid 39 hours but work 39hrs 15 mins just so it suits management.
A few members now thinking of leaving CWU as they feel they are playing into managements hands everytime we have a new proposal.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Seemingly they can make you work more than 39 hours per week as CWU have it in duty options.I was told on Thursday after union rep attended area meeting with managers.
Find it hard to believe that you can be paid 39 hours but work 39hrs 15 mins just so it suits management.
A few members now thinking of leaving CWU as they feel they are playing into managements hands everytime we have a new proposal.

I disagree entirely. Seek legal advice. It is against the law to force someone to go past their time. You are only required to work your hours, nothing more. Go to the CAB. Tried it on us in my office, and they backed down. And yes, the CWU Area Rep said the same to us, told him no. 39 hours a week, over 5 days, end of. If people want to change their attendance patterns that's fine, but if not, just refuse. They want people to just accept it, as it makes their jobs and workloads easier to cover. There are nearly 300 people in my office, in the space of a week, they went from telling us we're doing 52 hours a week, 3 weeks running, and the 4th week as rest week off and had no choice in it, to backing down, we all now do 39 hours a week.

[clashcityrocker]

I disagree entirely. Seek legal advice. It is against the law to force someone to go past their time.

A unit voting in favour of longs and shorts is not against the law.
Unless you can quote the relevant law they are breaking?

[UnhappyGremlin]

I disagree entirely. Seek legal advice. It is against the law to force someone to go past their time.

A unit voting in favour of longs and shorts is not against the law.
Unless you can quote the relevant law they are breaking?

Never said the vote was illegal. I'm just saying that you cannot be forced to go past 39 hours a week as a result. I and many of my colleagues refused, to the point where everyone in the office that is FT does 39 hours only, save for OT obviously, nobody's duty structure requires them to do more than their weekly contracted hours.

[clashcityrocker]

If the unit votes to work longs and shorts or Wallington weeks, are you not bound by collective bargaining?

[UnhappyGremlin]

If the unit votes to work longs and shorts or Wallington weeks, are you not bound by collective bargaining?

As far as I'm aware no. I spoke to a lawyer. But then, it doesn't affect me as nothing of the sort was voted for, no matter what tactics management used.
You are only required to work your contracted hours, which is 39 per week over 5 day, anything beyond that is OT, which you cannot be forced to do.
If, at some point in the future, the management at my office decide they want longs and shorts, or 3 52 hour weeks and 1 rest week wok patterns, I don't care how the vote goes. They will be told, I'm working no more than 39 hours a week, and I would file a grievance and take it all the way to a tribunal.

[clashcityrocker]

.
If, at some point in the future, the management at my office decide they want longs and shorts, or 3 52 hour weeks and 1 rest week wok patterns, I don't care how the vote goes. They will be told, I'm working no more than 39 hours a week, and I would file a grievance and take it all the way to a tribunal.

Well good luck with that.
Do let us know how you get on.
I hope you've got deep pockets.

[fishtank]

It's a grey area whether a collective agreement like BT2010 which allows members the possibility through choice of changing their attendance patterns could be used to force other members to change their attendance patterns against their will.
You are drifting into the realms of interpretation which is a legal minefield and can change depending on the position an individual tribunal takes.
I wouldn't want to call it either way.

I think if you went to a tribunal over 15 minutes though they would be unlikely rule in your favour as this would probably be considered reasonable.

[fishtank]

This is the bit of BT2010 they will throw at you...

Employees who wish to retain their current contracted hours will have the option to do so, however all employees will need to recognise that in order to provide innovative attendance patterns and duty structures they will need to embrace change which may mean an alteration to attendance times

[UnhappyGremlin]

This is the bit of BT2010 they will throw at you...

Employees who wish to retain their current contracted hours will have the option to do so, however all employees will need to recognise that in order to provide innovative attendance patterns and duty structures they will need to embrace change which may mean an alteration to attendance times

That's the bit we used to keep our duties at 39 hours, and it worked. That and the fact we told them we weren't willing to do what they wanted, and voted as such, and stuck to our guns. Despite the fact that the Area Rep tried to persuade people to do what the DOM wanted, which conveniently was the option that would save the most jobs. Which was total bullshit. I pointed out if you have ABC hours, and XYZ staff, only having 75% of them at work at any one time would not save jobs, it simply moves the hourage about, the totals remain the same. It was just the easiest option for them.
We also pointed out we work 39 hours over 5 days, anything past that is OT, and you cannot be forced to work it. I, like most, have no objection to changing attendance times, but that is entirely different to telling me I will work 45 hours one week and 33 the next, and that I have no choice in the matter. Or, as was in our case, 3 weeks at 52 hours and the 4th week off. If people want it, or are willing to accept it, that's their choice. I can't, and won't. Maybe at some point they'll try it on again, but it is my view that it would be unreasonable for the company to demand I concede to attendance pattern changes that will significantly, and negatively, affect my personal life. If I could work longer hours, I would do OT, as I could do with the cash, but longer hours are not an option, and as unreasonable as the company may claim I would be in my refusal, they would be twice as unreasonable to try and force me to work past my time.

[chooch]