8th april joint statement

[clashcityrocker]

As a rep what would your case be?

He isn't being paid for the hours he is working.

I'm not sure where you're going with this Clash.
We don't operate a flexi-time system as a rule.

Do you think everyone who starts (unrequested) early does so unpaid?
If they start 30 minues early they expect to finish 30 minutes early. If not they claim the docket.
Do you think the managers know what time everyone actually finishes? And far easier to pay the o/t than face the possible cut-offs.
Is it recorded as indoor pressure or outdoor? Does anyone care anymore?

[fishtank]

If they start 30 minues early they expect to finish 30 minutes early. If not they claim the docket.

That post would scare the s**t out of most reps.
It might be true in your office,it's not in mine.
To me it looks like a short cut to a P45.

[hans solo]

oh its f***ing likely all right cos im gonna make it happen watch west of scotland explode

[TrueBlueTerrier]

its the f***ing mgmt who have to get conducted

Yep I think we've been here before - here is a manager who is producing the end product under budget because in his office there are a bunch of nutters who come in on a daily basis, 30 mins, 40 mins, an hour earlier than their start time and work for nothing. Also amongst that group are people who decide not to use LCTs because it slows them down and they are joined by yet another group who decide not to take a break because they can't finish on time In the meantime the manager has by no effort of his own saved a sh*t load of money and you think he is going to be conducted for the stupidity of those people who, despite every effort, still thinks it's their responsibility to see that the system/revision works and refuse to do the job properly.

Exactly, although you are being sarcastic, the essence of your post is correct. The reasons why revisions aren't working is because they are based on false data.

So in the short term the manager is saving money and getting the Kudos, unfortunately in the long term running on false figures will eventually hit home and his budget on hours and money will be busted. The manager is at fault and is costing Royal Mail more money digging them out of the hole of his making, than if he had acted on the poor habits that skew the figures . Put it this way in a perfect world he would get conducted but he'll probably be moved to RMs equivalent of a deep dark hole, or he will be visiting garden centres rather more frequently then he envisaged.

However its not a perfect world and until RM get their act together and start accepting real data instead of squeezing as much blood as they can, DM won't work. There are some indications though that perhaps senior management are waking up to this, but will they do anything - I doubt it.

If there is a real statement going to be made on 8th April - it'll be a flash in the pan, one month wonder, and then everyone will go back to the status quo. Its sad but, unless they change the ethos of RM, true.

[dvbuk55]

So in the short term the manager is saving money and getting the Kudos, unfortunately in the long term running on false figures will eventually hit home and his budget on hours and money will be busted. The manager is at fault and is costing Royal Mail more money digging them out of the hole of his making, than if he had acted on the poor habits that skew the figures . Put it this way in a perfect world he would get conducted but he'll probably be moved to RMs equivalent of a deep dark hole, or he will be visiting garden centres rather more frequently then he envisaged.

However its not a perfect world and until RM get their act together and start accepting real data instead of squeezing as much blood as they can, DM won't work. There are some indications though that perhaps senior management are waking up to this, but will they do anything - I doubt it.

If there is a real statement going to be made on 8th April - it'll be a flash in the pan, one month wonder, and then everyone will go back to the status quo. Its sad but, unless they change the ethos of RM, true.

Well to begin with I'm not being sarcastic - what I stated was the reality. The manager isn't digging a hole the members are digging the hole by refusing to do the job properly - he presents the figures as they are presented to him. As for the manager being at fault - how does that play out - he isn't the one skewing the figures is he and he is most unlikely to be conduct coded and as for his world coming to an end that would only happen if everyone came in on time used the equipment and took the breaks they are entitled to. I get sick to death of posters on here saying "using the trolley slows me down", "I don't have time to take a break", "my partner isn't fast enough"...............and I'm still not being sarcastic.

[clashcityrocker]

That post would scare the s**t out of most reps
.

I don't see why.
People should be paid for the number of hours they work.
If that isn't the case, it is no wonder so many revisions are failing.

[fishtank]

That post would scare the s**t out of most reps
.

I don't see why.
People should be paid for the number of hours they work.
If that isn't the case, it is no wonder so many revisions are failing.

That doesn't make sense on any level.
If a member starts 30 minutes early without prior authorisation,finishes on time and books 30 minutes overtime they are risking the conduct code,possibly even dismissal.
Are you suggesting that's an acceptable risk?

If you walk into a conduct meeting and say but it's because he started 30 minutes early the first question they will ask is who authorised that?...probably only once they've stopped laughing.
This is not a game and you don't get to make up the rules yourself which is already something you know so again I'm confused where you're going with this.

[hans solo]

fishi boy i respect you like fcuk for all your posts etc
but fact remains people work for free SLAVERY was abolished why encourage it
there is about to be something big all over uk about to happen
embrace it or follow the sheep

[fishtank]

Who is encouraging working for free?
There are only three points I have to make on this.

1. It shouldn't be a conduct issue.
2. Reps and members should not get involved in policing it.
3. It'll never happen,or if some kind of statement does appear it will last for a very short period of time before normal service is resumed.

[hans solo]

mgmt encourage working for free

[BoltonPostie]

mgmt encourage working for free

wow a very thought provoking post there.
Here's one as you seem to like lions.
If you expect the world to be fair with you because you are fair, you’re fooling yourself. That’s like expecting the lion not to eat you because you didn’t eat him.

[dvbuk55]

That’s like expecting the lion not to eat you because you didn’t eat him.

That's a pretty fair assessment of the current situation with the CWU and RM expecting fairness doesn't always pay dividends.

[clashcityrocker]

Who is encouraging working for free?
There are only three points I have to make on this.

1. It shouldn't be a conduct issue.
2. Reps and members should not get involved in policing it.
3. It'll never happen,or if some kind of statement does appear it will last for a very short period of time before normal service is resumed.

Members working for free screws things up. There is no point harping on about Georoute, Pegasus, Delivery Forecast Tools or how many letters are in a tray when one of the biggest problems is in our own hands - namely - how many hours do we need in this DO to do the job properly.
As a rep I presume you wouldn't have any qualms about challenging a manager performing OPG work because .....it screws things up.
Therefore if there is an instruction to managers to stop early starters, we should police it and where they (the DOMs) are not fulfilling their duties we should flag it up to their managers.
At the same time we have to continue the process of education of our colleagues ( ) so they understand why we are grassing them up....

[fishtank]

Members working for free screws things up.

So does..
Doorstepping items.
Not obtaining a signature.
Not doing D2D to spec.
Not using delivery methods.
Running and taking shortcuts.
The list is not exhaustive.
Do we currently grass members up for the above?
If we did how could we represent those members at the resultant conduct meetings?

As a rep I presume you wouldn't have any qualms about challenging a manager performing OPG work because .....it screws things up.

I don't represent managers.

By all means support this initiative,stand up at WTLL and state that you support it and explain why but police it?....No.

Apart from the obvious danger of being accused of bullying members,the even more obvious danger of being accused of colluding with managers against your own members...It would ultimately be OPGs performing management "work" which would be slightly hypocritical.

[dvbuk55]

In truth neither the managers nor the members should need to police what everyone should be doing by right every day.