A bit of a long rant......

[Homo Harry]

OK, comrades. Let me first tell you this. That I am not anti-Union. Very far from it, but what I am about to say is most certainly anti-CWU. I've always been very pro-Union, voted left, always wore my CWU badge. I joined the Union on my very first day of service back in 1987.

In my last 12 months I was the Unit rep' for my office, though I received absolutely no training. I increased the amount of members in my office by about 20% just by badgering my branch for some "sign-up" forms and getting hold of a list of union members, then working out who wasn't on that list and going around those who weren't on the list.

One of my main points in getting non-union members to join was that the CWU was there to protect your job. They have solicitors and experience and the whole point of the Union was to help you.

With what I know now, I know I lied to every one of those I got to join the union. :(

2004 was a crap year for me. 2 major things happened. I split up with my partner and got a nasty chest infection (pleurisy). Between those points I had taken Spec "C" leave.

Because I'd had some time off with the Pleurisy and the marital breakdown, I got Stage 1.

While I was on light duties recovering from Pleurisy, I was sent out on a 1/4 delivery even though I was too sick still to walk at any kind of pace, A 5 minute walk home after work was taking me about 15 minutes. Anyhows, while out on this delivery I had a fall and twisted my ankle. (on top of cuts to my face, hands and knees) After Xmas i returned to deliveries as I was fit enough to resume my normal job. 2 weeks later my ankle was twice the size and it was agony. The doc diagnosed ankle tendonitis. I had 10 days off. followed by another 4 days a while later.

I hit Stage 2. And was issued a Stage 2.

I got my "reasons to urge" for incurring 2 absences, one of 3 days, one of 2 days. I was 1 week short of finishing my S2, I would have been clear.. but alas, those last 2 days took my over the limit and my DOM (who was new to the business) fired me.

Yes, I'd had the time off. Yes, I'd broken the RMAP (Royal Mail Attendance Procedure) But there were mitigating factors like accidents on duty maybe being responsible for my ankle problems, and I had been the CWU rep and on the same day as my S3 a different postie had a S3. I was notified of my dismissal 1 week later. He had nothing happen AT ALL for 11 weeks, then was informed it was quoshed due to it having taken so long. My DOM also used my Spec "c" leave as reasons for my dismissal in his deliberations. Leave doesn't have any part of the RMAP and it should not have been used. There were many other errors too... but it'd take too long to explain them all.

Anyhows, I was represented at my appeal, my sick absence record had absences that weren't mine, but it did have the absences I had had. And I lost my appeal.

And this was where the CWU pretty much washed it's hands of me. Never mind I'd been an active union member. Or a rep'... or that I may have had a winnable case at Employment Tribunal. My branch rep' thought I had a good case for an E.T and I pursued that.

And while he helped out in many many ways, the CWU didn't want to know. I'd been dismissed under the RMAP and therefore... "my case wasn't winnable at E.T"

Now here's where I am most pissed off. Yeah I was dismissed, and yes I did break the RMAP... but..the CWU claims it doesn't represent members at E.T's if they think there's little chance of winning. Myself, another Rep and many many people thought I had a very good chance. The CWU's reasoning is that they don't want to squander money on representing cases that they think wont win. I can see the logic in that. I agree with that 100%.

BUT.... Employment Tribunals very very very rarely award costs. Don't believe me? It's on the official E.T website. Here:
http://www.employmenttribunals.gov.uk/c ... ring.htm#9

9. The cost of going to Tribunal

In most Employment Tribunal cases, each side will pay their own costs. However, in certain circumstances, the tribunal may order one side to pay costs to the other. Those circumstances can include if one side has behaved unreasonably in the way they have carried out the case or if a tribunal thinks that a claim was so weak that it should not have been brought.

In 2003-04 tribunals awarded costs in under 1% of cases - a third were awarded to claimants and two thirds to respondents.

So........ I went to my pre-hearing and represented myself. A pre-hearing is where they decided if you have a claim or if you are just being a pain in the arse. It either gets struck out and doesn't go past that point, or if it goes forward to a full hearing, you have to front up £500 to show you are serious. The Chairman in my case decided to let my claim procede AND amazingly made the instruction that there was to be no £500 bond.

And still the CWU would not support me. So, i went to the full hearing and represented myself. Against RM solicitors who are specialists in Employment Law and do nowt else but this day in and day out.

I was in court all day and it was harrowing. Absolutely bloody awful. And at 4.45 pm the Chairman and his panel delivered their verdict... that RM had lawfully dismissed me.

:( OK....

Maybe it would have gone that way whatever.... maybe. Maybe it would have been different if I'd have had the support of the CWU legal-eagles?

But why wasn't I supported after paying subs for all those years? Was that money only ever used to pay for National Officers to ponce about in suits all day? I'm really wondering here!!! if it aint for the defence of CWU members, then what ARE we paying for?

The argument the CWU use about having to pick up costs is false. Of all the dismissals over the year, most people aren't going to go to ET. Of those who do decide to go to ET, most of those will fall at the pre-hearing stage. Of those left, and I'm guessing it's going to be a tiny percentage of all dismissals, some will win, some will lose. And in only 1% of those cases are costs awarded....

I still see many of my old workmates about. And when they talk about the Union, because they know how much I put into the Union, it's very hard not to say f**k the Union. Because that's how I feel the Union has treated me.

Sorry about the rant, and don't think for one minute this is directed at those in the CWU who do the hands on stuff... it isn't.

Hope the strike goes well.... even now I still support the union, it just leaves a bitter taste.

[IWW Fellow Worker]

Perhaps someone in the know from high up in the CWU could answer this. I'd be very interested in the answer because I've been a union man since I left school thirty six years ago. Even when I worked in small non-union workshops, I kept my membership up. I hope our loyalty isn't a one way thing.

[smokerjim]

Harry, we've spoken about this before & I'm glad you've posted it up here at last, a lot of people here ( IWW worker being an excellent example ) support the union, but want the union to support them more noticibly. In the current IA the union ask us to go on the lines & we do, we give up our time & our pay, to strengthen the union's hand at negotiations, but what have the union done to secure public support? Nothing, they expect it & for the most part it is given, but they could have taken greater part in the media war against RM - as it is, that is a long time lost & lost badly ( Paul Routledge in his column suggested we go back to work, now the RM have offered us 6.9% - even he, one of our best supporters thinks it is only about a pay rise! ).

Here's hoping you can spend more time on here in the future Harry ( assuming postmen & women have a future )

IWW, imo, there's more chance of :lfo & :cfo doing a moonlight flit tomorrow & giving up all their possesions to become Bhuddist monks and reformers of the capatilist system.

[Spartacus]

That's shocking Harry,it's disgusting that you were so poorly represented by the union.

I've seen some stonewall certain sackings overturned on appeal and at ETs due to good representation by the union, that's no comfort to you though is it.



Best of luck in whatever you do next mate.

[norbet colon]

1 Section 92 1996 Employment Act -you have a right to a written statement of the reason for dismissal , they should never treat such a request lightly to the point of seeking legal advice because thier statement ties RM's hands.It sounds like a bent fit up (quell surprise) and CWU are frightened of RM's bent solictors somehow, trying to make the case "look straight ".It's also obvious those Solictors are playing siege mentality management to cover for that DOM.That DOM is out to make a name for himself ,look how he backed off with that delayed case , that would impress Senior Mgt. That's because I suspect RM would play trench warfare with the CWU and spin out the case to rack up costs against the CWU . I'm inclined to go with that one because I've seen RM do bent fit ups ,sack someone ; even IF it does look like a ET would chuck RM's case out , the CWU have kept things within RM to the point of taking cases to the National Appeals Manager .
2 RM did want to challenge the CWU in the courts over supposedly encouraging Unofficial IA in 2003. RM only dropped this at the 11th hour . It's a tactic that's worked against SOGAT & the NUM , L&C certainly are of that Thatcherite mentality. AL did ring the BS over Paul Turnbull telling the CWU to stay out of it . That's bullying if there ever was ! Sounds if the CWU are terrified of RM
3 It also sounds if the CWU have closed ranks to cover for people and there seems to be some collusion. I don't think they wanted you taking the lid off a can of worms .
4 It's obvious that RM have NOT acted "reasonably", followed procedure properly , given fair hearings etc
5 It's a myth about ET's dispensing informal common sense justice.
Too much politics here from a bunch of old women at CWU HQ or /and their influence, it stinks !. I'm convinced a private solictor would have won that for you, but he/she would have to be feisty.A decent solictor would have DEMANDED paperwork off RM , picked it to bits,gone for suspicious issues , drawn conclusions from so called coincidences , drawn inferences , it's also suspicious that RM had to hide behind their solictor's skirts ,and asked awkward questions to nail RM and prosecuted them,LONG BEFORE the full hearing.As for the suits representing their members , that went out in the 70's unfortunately!.

[L Tommo]

Fella i respect your view and your stand.... Unfairly i feel is the way the CWU have treated you as you told your plight... I feel for you mate... I to will be going thru a Appeal for my job and a ET and ive had contact with the partys in the CWU to deal with this...

I have been told many things from them and not going into detail for reason your will know.. I feel frustrated and let down before the case has been heard... I know i should wait to see the outcome but ive been given idiotic advice and shown stupid red tape that the CWU are going thru just to get my medical advice and evidence from my DR and Specialists that i have asked the CWU to get... They claim the norm is to only go thru my DR and not my specialist that the DR refered me to... I can understand confidentiality but i have given consent..... I have also been to a Brief in the time inbetween me bein sacked thru ill health and Not being in the union and then i had to re-join.... WHY???? I never chucked in my card ive always backed any strike and been very active in my offices ive worked... Been on commitees and worked with union reps closely.. I see i can do much more in terms of on the floor advice than a rep at times of (CLOSE CONTACT) IE over shadowed when working to our 318 a few years ago and anytime else... IM PRO UNION as u say.... I have a case which my brief has privi to that he says it is a very good chance of taking for discrimination of the Ill health retirerment act.. But told me to go thru all internal procedures in RM and the CWU.... I am and have.. Now i wait the long wait.... Ive had to postpone my hearing date of appeal on the union not getting my medical back up... Im in the shite i feel..... IM a very open passionate person about fairplay and rights and morals... The CWU havent shown me the same.... I do expect more from them and as you said THEY (CWU) dont take cases on that they deem not more than a 50% chance of winning!!!!! BOLLOX I SAY.... IF THEY HAVE THIS ATTITUDE AND NOT FIGHT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE PUT IN H&B CLAIMS AGAINST RM ,, DONT BACK PEOPLE WHO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED, DONT LOOK AFTER WITH RESPECT THE MEMBERS THAT PAY GOOD MONIES TO A UNION IM PROUD TO BE IN BUT DONT SPEND THAT MONEY ON THE WORKERS AND TO GET THERE JOBS BACK BUT RATHER ON A POLITICAL PARTY THAT RAPES OUR COUNTRY AND WORKERS OF OUR RIGHTS THEN SOMETHING IS BADLY WRONG!!!!!! I have wrote to Billy and Dave and they have sent it down the line to TONY RUPAR.... Now he and his staff are telling me all manner of things i dont feel happy about.. My outside brief has made contact with the CWU as a adviser and will contact them again if i dont feel happy but why should i or anyone in the CWU pay more to recieve our rights?????????? As you pointed out 1% of costs were awarded in cases 03 -04,,, I dont expect much more now if any???? Its a trifling amount....

I now await.... I hope you keep your strong morals that have made you the person you are and im upset you have gone thru the shite and the lack of CWU backing... I have a mate... Union rep who with out backing lost his Case for H&B / GRIEVENCE.....


OUT...


NEVER LET THE BASTARDS GRIND US DOWN!!!

[Homo Harry]

Thanks for the positive replies comrades.

I've just got home and read those and it's nice to know that others understand my dilemma. I'm sooooooooo not anti-union, I feel it's even wrong to be here and having to state I'm not anti-union. I waited weeks to publish the post I made above so that it wasn't done in anger.

I really, really hope this. That someone from the Exec reads this, or someone reading this, feels inclined to point a person from the Exec at this thread.

For this reason. We are your bread and butter. We pay your wages and without us, you have f**k all. And if someone as in love with being a Union man as I was, feels like I can't even bring myself to speak about the Union to ex-workmates, then you're doing something absolutely wrong.

Yes, I know that politically this can be used by those who want to demean the Union, but after what has happened, I really don't think I should be the one shutting up. And yes, I also know that my case is very important to me and maybe there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I'm not expecting any National Rep to say that maybe what's going on is wrong......

But I'll say this one last thing. Some of us, kept our beliefs. We became socialists, or left wing, or anarchists or just very normal people who believed in the right thing. We have morals and personal rules and we also work full time and on top of that we give up time to the Union and we do that because we believe in it. Some of those now in suits... you sold your f***ing souls. And that's why you dare not to appear here. You don't believe in it. Your position is more important than what you once believed in. And that's more a shame for us than it is for you. Cos we pay the penalty.

I once wouldn't brook criticism of the Union, now I will.

To the Exec...You support a party that is f***ing us... you haven't engaged the public in fighting L&C, you've cosied away in "talks".. and we're no further on.. and from what I am hearing they've come back and taken the piss out of you with harsher conditions... and the party you support is doing nowt.... pull your fingers out of your arses and start being what you joined this union for. f**k that YOU may lose your jobs... we're losing ours! Because without us, you've lost yours anyways........

[L Tommo]

A union is only as good as its members..... EXEC NEED TO REMEMBER THIS AT ALL TIMES....


HOMO-HARRY... IM WITH YOU BRUV.....


WORKERS RIGHTS....


NEVER LET THE BASTARDS GRIND US DOWN!!!!

[norbet colon]

A union is only as good as its members..... EXEC NEED TO REMEMBER THIS AT ALL TIMES....


HOMO-HARRY... IM WITH YOU BRUV.....


WORKERS RIGHTS....


NEVER LET THE BASTARDS GRIND US DOWN!!!!

I've had to read between the lines with a lot of stuff in "Voice". I can agree that not many people take RM & win, they've always made things difficult so people will give up. Nowadays the arrogance is breathtaking and that comes from L&C and their Senior Mgt . Sounds if the arse doesn't know what the elbow is doing at HQ , too much influence from Simpson & Miller and only going for stragetic cases. Time this overcentralization was cut out and got back to bread and butter stuff.There's dark forces there , a rep is a scalp and a half to RM ; though that's illegal. Sounds if RM wanted to turn it into a Test Case in their underhand way.

[smokerjim]

Thanks for the positive replies comrades.

I've just got home and read those and it's nice to know that others understand my dilemma. I'm sooooooooo not anti-union, I feel it's even wrong to be here and having to state I'm not anti-union. I waited weeks to publish the post I made above so that it wasn't done in anger.

I really, really hope this. That someone from the Exec reads this, or someone reading this, feels inclined to point a person from the Exec at this thread.

For this reason. We are your bread and butter. We pay your wages and without us, you have f**k all. And if someone as in love with being a Union man as I was, feels like I can't even bring myself to speak about the Union to ex-workmates, then you're doing something absolutely wrong.

Yes, I know that politically this can be used by those who want to demean the Union, but after what has happened, I really don't think I should be the one shutting up. And yes, I also know that my case is very important to me and maybe there's a perfectly reasonable explanation, but I'm not expecting any National Rep to say that maybe what's going on is wrong......

But I'll say this one last thing. Some of us, kept our beliefs. We became socialists, or left wing, or anarchists or just very normal people who believed in the right thing. We have morals and personal rules and we also work full time and on top of that we give up time to the Union and we do that because we believe in it. Some of those now in suits... you sold your f***ing souls. And that's why you dare not to appear here. You don't believe in it. Your position is more important than what you once believed in. And that's more a shame for us than it is for you. Cos we pay the penalty.

I once wouldn't brook criticism of the Union, now I will.

To the Exec...You support a party that is f***ing us... you haven't engaged the public in fighting L&C, you've cosied away in "talks".. and we're no further on.. and from what I am hearing they've come back and taken the piss out of you with harsher conditions... and the party you support is doing nowt.... pull your fingers out of your arses and start being what you joined this union for. f**k that YOU may lose your jobs... we're losing ours! Because without us, you've lost yours anyways........

I've a lot of respect for you Harry - especially as you were the first to tell me about doing the job properly. I didn't at the time ( not completely ), but I see the wisdom of your words.....and you gave me the best bit of advice about the job - Whatever you do, remember that it will affect you & every postman that comes after you ( sure concentrates the mind when you think your corner cutting may add work to a postie that's not even joined the business yet! )