Gross Misconduct(Wilful Delay)

[RTP]

Are these f/t or p/t workers? The reason I ask is regarding the MR. 20mins are allowed to be taken at the end of a full timers duty, so .......

[Stormproof]

Both F/T. The whole office has the full m/r before we go out.

[Pat Ostman]

I know you know this but even if they think they will finish on time they need to notify a manager for instructions before they bring anything back. Unless they could not get hold of anyone at the office whilst out on delivery.

Sounds like a training issue to me though, not wilful delay in the strictest sense. (Yes I know it can qualify for WD but just about anything can).

[Pat Ostman]

If they are looking at possible dismissal, shouldn't someone higher up the union tree be dealing with this?
No offence Storm.

Totally agree Clash. Spoke to one of the Area Reps who basically said good luck and get on with it. Hoping that because they have'nt been removed from the premises that they will just end up with a 2 year serious or something

Had they returned to the office having not taken their outdoor meal relief? We don't have outdoor meal relief
Did they contact or attempt to contact the depot to say they had undelivered mail they were bringing back? No, because they thought they were finishing on time
Did the recent weather hazzards or other issue prevent them from delivering that loop? Weather was ok here at the time

That is a shoddy excuse from area, bet they'll blame you if it doesn't go to plan as well.

Area should indeed be dealing with this but I can totally understand you helping when they seem to be hiding. just having Area Rep present can sometimes be enough to shut down the worse case scenario.

[fishtank]

It's not good enough from the Area Rep Storm.
Representing members in cases where dismissal is possible is the job of the Area Rep,that's what members pay for.
Go above him,to HQ if needed.
From what i've read the case is weak even for unexcused delay but that won't stop them.

[mclovin]

RM will dismiss first, and deal with any discrepancies at a later date. Appeal will be fruitless IMO.

Having said that they haven't followed their own procedure regarding suspension on full pay and removal from premises.

[Bahia Feliz]

You can't go out on a delivery and then just bring mail back without it being agreed 1st with your lino/dom,and then expect to just leave it and go home!

[flaminmoses]

is cutting off a regular thing in your office?

how long have the postmen been at royal mail?

when did longs and shorts come in?

[Pat Ostman]

You can't go out on a delivery and then just bring mail back without it being agreed 1st with your lino/dom,and then expect to just leave it and go home!

could they be contacted though or were all managers in the pub? its not always black and white. Events can occure whilst on delivery.

[Bahia Feliz]

could they be contacted though or were all managers in the pub? its not always black and white. Events can occure whilst on delivery.

If they had said "We tried to phone to let you know we are bringing mail back but couldn't get through" Or something like that it might have helped their case.

[mclovin]

Lads at my old office yesterday were told bring back whatever you can't do, so they brought back 5 bags worth which was then left for today.

Tuesday a whole delivery never left the frame as no one could lapse, so it stayed there until Wednesday.

Place is a joke now, service is an utter disgrace.

[Stormproof]

is cutting off a regular thing in your office? Yes

how long have the postmen been at royal mail? Over 10 years

when did longs and shorts come in? Approx 2 years ago

I dealt with one of the cases today, hoping to get the charge reduced to 'unexcused delay'. Very difficult defending it when RM laid out so much information in the pack.

[Lincox]

Stormproof, what help have you received from area/div reps in these cases? I would suggest deferring any further cases until you do get proper senior support.

[Stormproof]

Stormproof, what help have you received from area/div reps in these cases? I would suggest deferring any further cases until you do get proper senior support.

sending you a PM Lincox.

[Glenno]

Stormproof, what help have you received from area/div reps in these cases? I would suggest deferring any further cases until you do get proper senior support.

Hi Stormy, looks like you have been left to hold the baby ?
What's the problem with Area/Div Reps?
Can you not contact Branch Sec?
As in all these cases if proven the colleague/member has the right to Appeal, where Area Rep would have to take responsibility, but saying that they should be able to guide you more
one salient point to remember is the fact that mngt did not enforce them to go back out and complete, or work to their time as they had finished early stating the fact of Wilful delay on the given day ( no option to correct error ) I think you have enough info on this thread to drop the charge to a less serious contact if you need too