I've walked out

[Mr Rush]

I find it amazing how many posties don't know the difference between international items and recorded items.....often marking their p739 cards wrong....many times without tracking numbers too....

No-one's ever explained the difference to me, but I've always assumed if the tracking number didn't end in GB it was deemed an international sign-for.

[JiminyBillyBob]

In my short time at RM i've never heard of anyone being called up for not getting a Recorded singed for by a customer? Like some have said, the customer is probably more grateful you haven't put them through the trouble of it, and they still get their item of mail so everyone's happy, But i don't doubt for a second someone with to much time on their hands will make that call to the complains dept at some point

[dvbuk55]

Recorded delivery 'when it's done right' is a good service,a small price to pay to prove that the stuff you sent out has been recieved.
It's us (some) that f**k it up.

That's the problem really - "when it's done right" but there is only proof of posting when you hand it in to the PO and on receipt - in other words just two tracking details if it's done right, no signature on receipt and you just have proof of posting - which is free anyway.

[ratchet]

In my short time at RM i've never heard of anyone being called up for not getting a Recorded singed for by a customer? Like some have said, the customer is probably more grateful you haven't put them through the trouble of it, and they still get their item of mail so everyone's happy, But i don't doubt for a second someone with to much time on their hands will make that call to the complains dept at some point

Are you serious ?

Leaving aside the fact that human error does happen (a postie shouldn't be sacked because he's made a simple error), lets look at this from the angle that a Postie has consciously decided not to bother going through the hassle of getting a signature.

Don't kid yourself that "Every one is happy" because you're conveniently forgetting about the poor sap who has posted the item, and then gets ripped off because the Postie didn't get a signature. But one point you are correct on is that the addressee will be happy - he hasn't had to go to the depot to collect his item, and he simply slaps in a Paypal claim so he gets the item for free (including the postage costs). Hopefully the paying customer will be able to claim compensation from the RM, but he has to spend a lot of time and effort in doing so, and the RM has to spend a lot of time and money investigating and compensating claims.............. simply because a Postie couldn't be bothered to get a signature or thinks he's doing everyone a favour.

Lets also consider the fact that court summonses are also sent via recorded delivery - there are a lot of highly paid legal people and witnesses sitting around waiting for a defendant to turn up. The defendant then simply states that he didn't appear in court because he never received the summons, so the Postie not doing his job properly has cost the tax payer (including himself) £1000's.

As for dismissing the person who makes a complaint as "someone having to much time on their hands", words fail me.

I do use special delivery for high value items, but why should I have to pay double or treble the postage costs for a low value item to ensure that
A. The RM doesn't lose my item in the system
B. The Postman does his job correctly
C. The Postman doesn't steal my item

I don't know if the RM keep stats on rounds, but if you keep delivering recorded delivery items and not getting signatures I'm sure the brown stuff will hit the whirly thing at some stage during your time with the RM.

[dvbuk55]

I don't know if the RM keep stats on rounds, but if you keep delivering recorded delivery items and not getting signatures I'm sure the brown stuff will hit the whirly thing at some stage during your time with the RM.

Yes you'd think so wouldn't you ratchet but the truth is there is no record at RM - for the item to be fully traceable it would cost much more. Recorded delivery is a cheap method which should be signed for on receipt but for a number of reasons isn't. The only time that RM knows there is a problem is when someone complains by which time of course it is too late. At present RM don't know if the item arrived at the correct delivery office let alone the correct delivery. Despite the failure of a signature, though actually delivered, surely the element of customer dishonesty also plays a very important part. In the hope that you continue to use the system with the advent of total use of PDAs there is much much less likelihood that the system will fail you. I believe that the system of recorded will eventually be replaced with a tracking system currently only available to businesses but is scheduled to be available to the public, though that issue has gone quiet at the moment.

[ratchet]

I don't know if the RM keep stats on rounds, but if you keep delivering recorded delivery items and not getting signatures I'm sure the brown stuff will hit the whirly thing at some stage during your time with the RM.

Yes you'd think so wouldn't you ratchet but the truth is there is no record at RM - for the item to be fully traceable it would cost much more. Recorded delivery is a cheap method which should be signed for on receipt but for a number of reasons isn't. The only time that RM knows there is a problem is when someone complains by which time of course it is too late. At present RM don't know if the item arrived at the correct delivery office let alone the correct delivery. Despite the failure of a signature, though actually delivered, surely the element of customer dishonesty also plays a very important part. In the hope that you continue to use the system with the advent of total use of PDAs there is much much less likelihood that the system will fail you. I believe that the system of recorded will eventually be replaced with a tracking system currently only available to businesses but is scheduled to be available to the public, though that issue has gone quiet at the moment.

Customer dishonesty plays a very important part, I'm sure there are far more dishonest customers than there are dishonest Posties, but unless there is a signature the seller has no other option than to refund the customer and claim compensation from the RM.

Whilst RD items aren't trackable through the RM system, the compensation department may notice that Joe Bloggs at 22 Acacia Avenue has been on the receiving end of 3 compensation claims in the last year (as in 3 different sellers have claimed against the RM for items that should have been delivered to Joe Bloggs), and from this information be able to deduce that Joe Bloggs is a dishonest customer (or really unlucky )........ and also deduce that his Postie has a habit of leaving items for him without getting a signature. So you've done this customer a favour by saving him the trip to the office to pick his parcel up, and he's dropped you right in it by constantly claiming compensation from his suppliers. So if you do decide to leave items without a signature, you need to be as sure as YOU can that it is an honest customer or your decision could come back and bite you. This does of course assume that you are on a regular round.

[dvbuk55]

I don't know if the RM keep stats on rounds, but if you keep delivering recorded delivery items and not getting signatureWhilst RD items aren't trackable through the RM system, the compensation department may notice that Joe Bloggs at 22 Acacia Avenue has been on the receiving end of 3 compensation claims in the last year (as in 3 different sellers have claimed against the RM for items that should have been delivered to Joe Bloggs), and from this information be able to deduce that Joe Bloggs is a dishonest customer (or really unlucky )........ and also deduce that his Postie has a habit of leaving items for him without getting a signature. So you've done this customer a favour by saving him the trip to the office to pick his parcel up, and he's dropped you right in it by constantly claiming compensation from his suppliers. So if you do decide to leave items without a signature, you need to be as sure as YOU can that it is an honest customer or your decision could come back and bite you. This does of course assume that you are on a regular round.

Well what you say may be true if there was a method of checking Joe Bloggs and if RM thought the cost of checking and having no proof of theft would be of any benefit rather than simply paying the 30 or so quid in compensation bearing in mind the additional revenue from people who do use the recorded system as opposed to ordinary parcel/packet rate. There are a number of reasons why the system fails ratchet not dishonesty or failure to get a signature but also PDAs frequently fail to download/freeze and the old style cards still used for walking deliveries and deliveries that have not yet had the revision or transformation which are sent away for signature verification.

[fishtank]

I would imagine in some office somewhere,somebody responsible for targets will have some spreadsheet that can show number of complaints per walk.
If there is a WCM point to be had then problem delivery offices and problem walks will be easily identified.

[dvbuk55]

I would imagine in some office somewhere,somebody responsible for targets will have some spreadsheet that can show number of complaints per walk.
If there is a WCM point to be had then problem delivery offices and problem walks will be easily identified.

Yes he's probably been re-assigned to revision planning somewhere

[clashcityrocker]

I would imagine in some office somewhere,somebody responsible for targets will have some spreadsheet that can show number of complaints per walk.

And I am fairly certain they can break it down to type of complaint as well - redirection failure, misdelivery, not shutting the gate, letting the HCT crash into their car etc.......
But that doesn't actually show who was responsable - duty holder/floater/reserve.

[fishtank]

But that doesn't actually show who was responsable - duty holder/floater/reserve.

Show or prove?
I would imagine it would show or at least paint a picture...enough for reasonable belief?
Certainly enough to warrant some kind of closer surveillance...maybe even a nice recorded test packet that fits through a letterbox....
All of this could of course be happening right now...to any of us.

[newtimes]

"I would imagine it would show or at least paint a picture...enough for reasonable belief?"

[dvbuk55]

That looks a bit like me when I realise it's Monday and I'm going to work tomorrow.

[north london driver]

no it looks like gerry o,rouke when he seen the overtime hourage going out in south-east.

[barrowc]

if RM thought the cost of checking and having no proof of theft would be of any benefit rather than simply paying the 30 or so quid in compensation bearing in mind the additional revenue from people who do use the recorded system as opposed to ordinary parcel/packet rate

At the last price change (April 2012), RM changed the rules so that compensation for lost items is no longer payable to PPI customers unless they use RM Tracked, Special Delivery, International Signed For or Airsure - see http://www.royalmail.com/customer-servi ... mpensation.

There is also a VAT-exempt PPI service called BPL that attracts compensation for lost items but it isn't massively popular because it's fiddly to use and doesn't attract the same volume-related discounts which other services get. It's the "VAT exempt 1st and 2nd class payable on account" mentioned at http://www.royalmail.com/customer-servi ... ation-lost.

So, it's fairly likely that the sender of a Recorded Delivery item paid for by PPI can't claim any compensation except the refund of the Recorded fee (95p) if no signature has been taken - FAQ #7 at http://www.royalmail.com/delivery/busin ... igned/faqs. As a result, Royal Mail's incentive to investigate isolated instances of allegedly missing items is probably not very high