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Letter To Members

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
fishtank
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by fishtank »

dvbuk55 wrote:I don't quite honestly see the distinction, the same challenges is the same position with or without the agreement.
My point is the agreement,or more accurately HQ's delivery of the agreement and lack of support afterwards disengaged the membership...that's a fact few would argue with.

So here we are facing privatisation,end to end competition and a rapidly imploding management structure at RM which we would no doubt be facing anyway but because of the behaviour of HQ(pitifully slow to react) and RM(ignoring it) over the agreement we are facing it with a disengaged membership.

Same challenges...different position.

The problem we have now is that we have only two choices,we can't change the personnel at HQ even if there were those to change them with so we either have to try to make the best of what we have and fight with that or we decide not to fight at all.
There are no half measures when it comes to something like that,i think that lesson might finally be sinking in with some of our national officers.
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whatamess!!
Posts: 279
Joined: 13 Jan 2011, 17:43
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by whatamess!! »

demon wrote:give us our early saturdays back you s**t union
Blame royal mail, not the CWU!!

It makes me laugh when people blame the union with no onus on the company, if the CWU could have kept Saturdays as before, don't you think they would have!

What benefit would HQ get for pissing the members off!
borders
Posts: 1304
Joined: 11 Sep 2007, 09:10

Re: Letter To Members

Post by borders »

lets face it, our union leaders have for a long time been divorced from the work floor and this means they can be manipulated by the management towards mostly non-confrontational methods of negotiation. this allows the employers to dictate from the very start the terms and conditions that are to be consulted [not negotiated]on.
"why should it just be the bankers, politicians and the idle rich who get all the best things ? we demand a standard of living for our members that enables them to share in the fine wines and times that the likes of Cameron and his Eton buddies take for granted " - the late great Bob Crow RIP.
Martin Walsh
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Joined: 19 Sep 2007, 20:12
Location: neverland

Re: Letter To Members

Post by Martin Walsh »

This really is a surreal debate. Royal Mail purchase the automation kit borrowing money off the tax payer. Sequencing means that you can only sequence the mail when an MPU receives it and some of that mail is coming from all around the UK and it was posted anytime up too 19:30 before. The USO demands and is written in law within the Postal Services ACT. Now the union could not convince either Royal Mail to shut off sequencing on a Saturday morning especially as the Hooper report called for sequencing and after Royal Mail borrowed over a billion pounds to purchase them.

Now of course if the customers post the same way they do Monday to Thursday on a Friday then your delivery office should be getting the work roughly at the same time as Monday to Thursday. This obviously means that it will mean later finishes.

The union did try and change this but how do you convince the employer to switch of the whole workplan on a Friday night to allow delivery staff to have a early finish ? Instead the union got in the agreement less Saturdays entitled to all staff during revison activity. There are lots of postmen and women working less Saturdays now then prior to BT2010.

of course some of our members have turned down the option of less Saturdays and some managers have denied some offices the opportunity to have less Saturdays.

The union seems to get blamed for lots but the union don't have a veto on change , remember the miners ,print workers, dockers and the car plants.

No industry has gone through the amount of change we are due to a variety of issues. The union's campaign will either convince you to support it or not. But don't for one second believe by nt supporting the union your better off cause privitisation especially with what Royal Mail and the Government have got planned is going to be good for the workforce in terms and conditions or TNT delivering mail is going to improve your conditions or that Royal Mail and the Government won't want to set up a speperate delivery workforce to deliver the growth.

No one is yet talking about balloting for strike action this is a start of a campaign where the union must address the members concerns in the workplace before expecting them to support the wider issues of privitisation but of course you can never rule out a strike.

Now the person who said lets work to rule clearly has never been in a situration when a whole office has done this. As Royal Mail's tactic is to take an indivdual of pay for not working normally and this forces an office either to go out unofficially or allowing Indivduals to be left high and dry. You can take a trilingual out but months later. Both Streatham and Watford were successful at a tribunal but a year later.

Look we are a voluntary organisation which is trying to stop what the NUM failed to , what the print unions failed to do and dockyards failed , and that is privitisation , modernisation and deregulation as well as Royal Mail wanting to reduce costs.

A lot on here believe the RMT are a strong union and they are but the did not defeat privitisation. The CWU have on 4 different occasions,.

it's your choice you either fight the threat now or you continue to be bitter about the past and allow yourselves to be stitched up for the future.
Cut Off King
Posts: 1078
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by Cut Off King »

Personaly, I don't think that we can stop privatisation. All three political parties want to sell us off. I think that if the CWU had removed funding totally from Labour over the issue some years ago, things might have been different. The then Labour goverment & CWU could have come up with an alternative model of modernisation without privatisation, but the time for that course of action has slipped away. Now we are dealing with the CON-DEM's.

Maybe its time for the CWU to accept our fate.
Instead, concentrating on getting the best possible ££££ share deal for members from the sell off, and the longest post privatisation T&C's deal that can be had, also the very best EVR deals possible for anybody who wants to go.

Maybe working with the Gov & RM to shape how the NEW RM will be structured would be the best result for members.

I guess that privatisation will see fewer members and as a result, fewer subs £££ going to the CWU HQ. That also will be on billys mind !

I would perfer RM to stay a Gov. owned company, but that just aint going to happen.

I think the time for drawing a line in the sand over this issue slipped passed the CWU a number of years ago. Failure to take action then, has lead us to where we are now.
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 16650
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by dvbuk55 »

fishtank wrote:Trust me,have i ever lied to you? :wink:
Well it is the smallest 9" I have ever seen.............but that may just be exaggeration and not a lie :angel

On a serious note I have always felt anger at the willingness of the leadership to go along with BT2010 and support it in the face of overwhelming evidence that it was and still is failing. P&L, delivery enabling, HCTs, LCTs plunging into the deep pool without water-wings and 4 months before the agreement ends hey ho only 50% of offices have had revision. I cannot see a way back even with industrial action because there is such a huge discrepancy in working practices. I would definitely vote NO to industrial action and if voted in I would find it difficult to support it. The reason for that is the last time we had already had partial revisions based on advice - but the changes were irreversible What would the action be for? As I recall the last action we took was hijacked for totally different reasons and called off before any meaningful agreement was reached to address the real issues and I somehow get the feeling that there is a quite different agenda for the CWU to become involved.
fishtank
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Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Re: Letter To Members

Post by fishtank »

dingo wrote:This really is a surreal debate. Royal Mail purchase the automation kit borrowing money off the tax payer. Sequencing means that you can only sequence the mail when an MPU receives it and some of that mail is coming from all around the UK and it was posted anytime up too 19:30 before. The USO demands and is written in law within the Postal Services ACT. Now the union could not convince either Royal Mail to shut off sequencing on a Saturday morning especially as the Hooper report called for sequencing and after Royal Mail borrowed over a billion pounds to purchase them.
The reason that Royal Mail gave for not being able to support the existing work plan was not the sequencing machines themselves but the fact that they could not afford to purchase enough of them to maintain the early starts.The mail posted "anytime up to 19.30" in post boxes is a red herring because it makes up a tiny fraction of the daily traffic and didn't need to go through sequencing at all..

Could you now explain how that position has changed to the point that they are now saying they have too many and are trying to mothball some and shift others to inappropriate places like Inverness?

The truth is Hooper was wrong,very wrong,sequencing in a declining letters market is a £1billion white elephant that has set modernisation back 10 years because it has starved the real growth market..packets of investment.

Those responsible for that decision should be removed from their positions immediately before they do any more damage and those in the union who "could not convince" should really take a look at themselves to see if negotiation is really their strongest suit.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
TrueBlueTerrier
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by TrueBlueTerrier »

nipples9992001 wrote:ohhhhhhhhh lol its ta tell ya the subs are going up lol
Comprehension not a strong point then, check the OP,no mention of the subs going up, that was in an LTB.
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egor110
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by egor110 »

@ Dingo - i mentioned working to rule and for the record i work in a office where since we've had the delivery revision/van share most of the office work there o=hours and break off.
You can't complete the delivery's in the time provided so breaking off has become the norm , even the most quiet compliant opg's have been pissed off and now break off.

Dingo do you honestly think the union are going to stop this company being floated?
It's going to happen, strike or no strike.
fishtank
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Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by fishtank »

egor110 wrote:do you honestly think the union are going to stop this company being floated?
It's going to happen, strike or no strike.
Probably not but we can certainly threaten to make it as messy as possible for them which could mean the difference between concessions over your terms and conditions after privatisation and basically accepting whatever model Royal Mail decide on.

Fighting privatisation is not only about stopping privatisation although that is the preferred option it's also unfortunately about forcing the employer into giving us a say in how that privatisation might look.
There are some in the union that think that can be better achieved by sucking up to the employer and Government.
I think they may need a lie down in a darkened room. :cuppa
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
hans solo
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by hans solo »

there will not be a strike because they wont get national support now for one
our office west of scotland would not support strike action due to cwu hq failings and lack of information consultation and support during FORCED revisions
its no surprise now changes have hit se and london that things are looked at differently
dvbuk55
EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by dvbuk55 »

fishtank wrote:Probably not but we can certainly threaten to make it as messy as possible for them which could mean the difference between concessions over your terms and conditions after privatisation and basically accepting whatever model Royal Mail decide on.
There is no defence to privatisation UNLESS it can be delayed until after the next election and even then it's a bit iffy but maybe a deal could be done with Labour.

TBH I would like to see what those terms and conditions are BEFORE they start the proceedings and if they are truly in the members interests or the CWUs and I do mean seats on the Board and/or share incentives for the glitterati - lets face it they are NOT employees of RM.............though you'd be hard pressed to deny that fact at times. There is also the question of their right to represent RM shareholders who are NOT members of the union.
fishtank
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by fishtank »

dvbuk55 wrote:There is no defence to privatisation UNLESS it can be delayed until after the next election and even then it's a bit iffy but maybe a deal could be done with Labour.

TBH I would like to see what those terms and conditions are BEFORE they start the proceedings and if they are truly in the members interests or the CWUs and I do mean seats on the Board and/or share incentives for the glitterati - lets face it they are NOT employees of RM.............though you'd be hard pressed to deny that fact at times. There is also the question of their right to represent RM shareholders who are NOT members of the union.
I agree with everything you say,delay,some luck with the market conditions,coalition fragmentation and perhaps the Scottish Independence question may really be our best hope.
I think sustained industrial action is unlikely but there are other ways to throw a spanner in the works.
Talk of seats on the board and an automatic right to represent shareholders is just an embarrassment which thankfully seems to have faded.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Martin Walsh
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Location: neverland

Re: Letter To Members

Post by Martin Walsh »

TBT the percentage of mail that is distant depends on the part of the country you live in but the inward disptach is roughly 30 to 40 % so is not that insignificant.

Now why has the business now starting to lapsed CSS machines or cut them completely is simply. When sequencing was orginally being deployed the throughput of these machines were 8000 items per hours , most MPUs are now doing in excess of 11 000 per hour and equally letter traffic is decreasing.

Royal Mail operate a system called Automis which records how long a CSS is in operation centrally and sadly some of our operators have not been operating them to the way they were meant to be sequenced some do not get switched on till after 01:00 meaning Royal Mail believe they can use less CSS machines to process the work.

Dave Ward on behalf of the CWU has written to request a national review of the workplan to identfy whether Royal Mail`s decision to cut css machines is reasonable and in line with the postion to protect full time jobs , allow staff to obtain improved attendances times.

Look if this union listened to people saying privitisation was inevitable then we would have been priviatised by Michael Helsetine back in 1994. We defeat a strong tory government then , we defeat the Labour Government 3 times and we still have the ability to cause problems for a Con Dem government who are in free fall.

No one knows whether we will win or not but its better to fight against what will surely destroy our terms and conditions then surrender to Royal Mail and the Government becuase we did not like what happened under the Business Transformation agreement.

Its up to you at the end of the day , fight for a future or continue to protest about the past !!!
gb93
Posts: 1462
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Re: Letter To Members

Post by gb93 »

What goodies will we get from RM & Government if we dont support the union in any action.
Our union isn't perfect the whole trade union movement isn't perfect.
But much prefer to take my chances being part of union & supporting it, rather than whining tutting & relying on goodwill of our lords & masters.
This ain't no baseball game, you get only one chance and you blew it.