Clocking in and out???

[DGP1]

My wife used to work for a large media company.

Rebekah?

Cruel cruel man

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

On top of all the stuff already said about corner cutting flyers and every minute you work getting pay for, think of all the millions of trees it would save in depots that have had their delivery methods revision, as most walks are unachieveable within contract hours if you do indoor work (IPS, packets, portering); prep; meal relief; delivery as you should do it (eg. pushing HCT everywhere rather than locking up to deliver by pouch, leaving mail unattended and breaking SSOW rules); getting to/from walk; replenishment with drop bags; comfort break... without even talking about whether you try to leave any standard packets with neighbours!

[hans solo]

surely it could be put forward at any branch meeting as aob to be acted on then rolled on to national level for consideration remember we are a union and as such be entitled to our views and if proposal is forwarded seconded etc it could carry
hq and pec should listen to members wishes and act according to this, not for own personal gain as they do at present.
the big stick every morning from mgmt at ours is to sign in and out especially the sign out ,computerised clock system would
resolve all issues so i think i will raise it as excuse for not signing out and then progress it see what happens
they could always use first line fix monies if the mgmt have not used it up on xmas pressies for themselves again

[banner18]

Simple answer for you.

Universal service obligation exists = Clocking in/out is a mere pipe dream!


Deeply unpopular with the membership due to engrained workforce so the union won't push for it and why are RM going to risk the universal service by having set hours?

It should be made into law, thats the only way it would ever happen.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 10&t=30170" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fishtank]

Deeply unpopular with the membership due to engrained workforce.

Might have been true 5-10 years ago.
Not so sure now,but the bottom line with that one is you really should ask the membership to find out if something is "deeply unpopular" and i don't remember being officially asked.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Deeply unpopular with the membership due to engrained workforce.

Might have been true 5-10 years ago.
Not so sure now,but the bottom line with that one is you really should ask the membership to find out if something is "deeply unpopular" and i don't remember being officially asked.

Indeed the last poll we did (link above) would seem to suggest that resistance to this idea is not that engrained, and that from a site which is considered by some as militant and too leftie

Should we have Clocking In/Out Machines?


Yes - 152 - 75%
No - 30 - 15%

Not Bothered - 14 - 7%
Prefer to Sign In/Out - 6 - 3%

[demon]

all for it

[DB1100]

I'm for it,but it wouldn't stop the bullying,the pressure would still be there.People would still be called into the office for a chat about their performance issues.To cut out the bullying you need to sort out the management,maybe have one or two took to court for their threatening behaviour.

[Lincox]

The problem that is difficult to overcome is the fact that all mail has or should be cleared every day regardless of amounts, weather, sickness, speed of the individual regardless of age, fitness, gender, attended calls, problems on the walk, people wanting to talk etc etc.
It is impossible to have any form of system that is fair to all which includes the business, because whatever system you wish to employ there will be managers who bully their way to making savings in order to keep their job or enhance their bonus and there will be employees who will either cut corners, come in early to get home as early as possible, or go excessively slow to use up time.
In large delivery offices a clocking in/out system may work as the likelihood is there will be indoor work available to use up time on lighter work days, whereas in smaller offices and subs this will not be as likely.
Perhaps a system whereby you are expected to complete each day regardless of volume, and in compensation a larger weekly salary is provided. Each person could then go at their own pace, and the unevenness of walks could be sorted by having rotation of days on each walk for all staff making a much fairer distribution of work. I can see the bullets coming

[DB1100]

The problem that is difficult to overcome is the fact that all mail has or should be cleared every day regardless of amounts, weather, sickness, speed of the individual regardless of age, fitness, gender, attended calls, problems on the walk, people wanting to talk etc etc.
It is impossible to have any form of system that is fair to all which includes the business, because whatever system you wish to employ there will be managers who bully their way to making savings in order to keep their job or enhance their bonus and there will be employees who will either cut corners, come in early to get home as early as possible, or go excessively slow to use up time.
In large delivery offices a clocking in/out system may work as the likelihood is there will be indoor work available to use up time on lighter work days, whereas in smaller offices and subs this will not be as likely.
Perhaps a system whereby you are expected to complete each day regardless of volume, and in compensation a larger weekly salary is provided. Each person could then go at their own pace, and the unevenness of walks could be sorted by having rotation of days on each walk for all staff making a much fairer distribution of work. I can see the bullets coming

I wouldn't mind the rotation of walks say 3 months and then change but flies in the face of seniority,I cannot see anything else of your suggestion that appeals to me tho.

[betfair]

Makes no difference in our office we get back early we have to do door to doors
Staff can't go home early yet we still have people who come in early plus work through breaks
Carry mail etc.... So clocking out wouldn't work it's people's attitudes to the job that need to change
Why do people work if they aren't getting paid its unbelievable

[ewancurze]

"No overtime untill your shift ends"..that would stop the corner cutters.
It will never happen though because managers will struggle to find OT volunteers,where at the moment the easy walks get 1 or 2 hrs a day doing absorption cut offs and still finish before the rest of us.

[Budfrog]

There are pros and cons to this (as with most things).

In manufacturing clocking in and out has been used for years but in the many of units lateness results in a mandatory loss of pay and can go against an individuals conduct record for persistent offenders.

On the plus side with this type of system indoor work hours are 100% accurate and if taken a stage further control or work area hours in larger units such as mail centres can be assessed.

IMO there are more benefits from a management perspective however there is also a benefit in terms of H&S as you know (or should) who is in the building (and maybe where) at any given time.

It terms of planning it is a fundamental requirement to know your Staff Hrs used (or it should be .... snigger) but can also be invaluable if the management wish to introduce incentives such as group bonus schemes based on control or work area efficiency.

[worktotime]

What are peoples thoughts on clocking in and out?? I have heard many branches in favour, but some are dead against it.
My personal thoughts are get them in tomorrow!

Everything the CWU is trying to do to get members to stop coming in early etc(do the job properly campaign) is not working.

If people had to clock in at 6am and clock out at 2pm it would solve alot of problems, why would some not have a break if they had to clock out at 2pm? why would someone come in early if they had to clock out at 2pm? why would someone rush around like an idiot if they still had to be there to clock out at 2pm? This is surely the way the CWU has to go, this will protect jobs!! Royal mail will not want this as it would mean people having to change attitudes towards the job.
( I thought the business transformation agreement 2010 was going to sort this )

Do you think your branch would support this?

Some will say that one person would come back with cards and clock 10 out at a time and take it in turns, there are ways to get around that with finger print scanners or eye scanners, maybe going a bit far but something has to change to protect the full time jobs we currently hold.

your right im all for it ,and it would stop all this walk collapseing (which we have done all year and still now) and it would stop all this banking hours like we have in our office, and argueing about o/t when you go over and dont get paid , we mentioned it to our dom about a clock machine and he said it was the cwu who didnt want it , i think its royal mail who dont due to the people coming in early and no breaks working for nothing. sooner the better i think.