Steve Cameron's letter

[Martin Walsh]

Fish talk about sterotyping !! For the record why did anyone agree to 109 BSi ??

The fact that phase 4 is a negotiation should be used by all to protect and where possible improve their members terms of conditions.

There are plenty of offices in both London and the South East who are considered high performers and upper decile and there are a number of offices in Scotland which are considered low performers in a similar way to London.

As for picking of the weakest well that is something Royal Mail have always done and training won't change that in itself as in lots of places there is no rep at all. The CWU is a voluntary organisation and at times you want to question why some people have let offices get picked off and stitched up and whilst it is easy to blame CWU HQs for all the problems,there are plenty of reps from Divisonal , branch , area and local who also share a responsibility.

[fishtank]

Fish talk about sterotyping !! For the record why did anyone agree to 109 BSi ?

I didn't stereotype anyone.
I didn't even mention any areas...you did.
For the record our office revision was set at 85,in two years it's barely moved.
I will be long retired before it would ever approach 109.

The offices in question did not agree to 109BSI,as far as i'm aware that decision was made at Branch level.
Since Branch is supposed to be a local reps "port in a storm" it kind of leaves the office isolated doesn't it?
At the end of the day we're supposed to be a union and parity of terms and conditions is supposed to be a foundation stone of any union but then this is a winners and losers "federal" union.

[drb]

I have mentioned this before,but I will re-iterate. I have sat with branches across the the country,and when asked if there any issues...nothing! These are branches with reps! It is understandable with offices without rep. We have to ask:

. Why offices do not have reps
. Those offices with reps..do they understand the revision process?
. Those offices with reps...do they understand the Way Forward on Vacancies. MTFS 2. BT Transformation 2010. 2009 Interim Agreement?

Perhaps those that care are a dying breed?

[clashcityrocker]

. Those offices with reps..do they understand the revision process?
. Those offices with reps...do they understand the Way Forward on Vacancies. MTFS 2. BT Transformation 2010. 2009 Interim Agreement?

Perhaps those that care are a dying breed?

I would ask the same questions of Area Reps not Unit Reps.
When asked if their Branch has any issues who is going to stand up and go - yes. We are being crapped on because they're cleverer than us. We keep getting outmanoeuvred.

[fishtank]

I would ask the same questions of Area Reps not Unit Reps.
When asked if their Branch has any issues who is going to stand up and go - yes. We are being crapped on because they're cleverer than us. We keep getting outmanoeuvred.

The inability to admit weakness is ironically our greatest weakness.
It's an inevitable product of a structure built on "who can piss the highest".

[hans solo]

Fish talk about sterotyping !! For the record why did anyone agree to 109 BSi ?

I didn't stereotype anyone.
I didn't even mention any areas...you did.
For the record our office revision was set at 85,in two years it's barely moved.
I will be long retired before it would ever approach 109.

The offices in question did not agree to 109BSI,as far as i'm aware that decision was made at Branch level.
Since Branch is supposed to be a local reps "port in a storm" it kind of leaves the office isolated doesn't it?
At the end of the day we're supposed to be a union and parity of terms and conditions is supposed to be a foundation stone of any union but then this is a winners and losers "federal" union.

sorry but for your information no one in the west of scotland agreed to any bsi % it has been forced on eveyone by mgmt
regardless of offices local or national agreements its all to make savings
west scotland mgmt leaked their plans and proposals on this site last year if i remember right and cwu GLASGOW BRANCH HAVE DONE NOTHING to stop or negotiate the way rm scotland operate
think tamsky raised these issues re rm scotland
mgmt just riding roughshod over everything 2010 agreement dont make me laugh mgmt just take the headlines they want and manipulate terms to suit its all been one big fit up

[dvbuk55]

I would ask the same questions of Area Reps not Unit Reps.
When asked if their Branch has any issues who is going to stand up and go - yes. We are being crapped on because they're cleverer than us. We keep getting outmanoeuvred.

The inability to admit weakness is ironically our greatest weakness.
It's an inevitable product of a structure built on "who can piss the highest".

Strange really that Scotland, the North East, North West, Midlands and uncle Tom Cobbley and all have raised these problems over the last 2 years and yet I seem to have forgotten how many times the big guns have been on hand to reconcile those problems - London and the South East are suddenly faced with the problems that all other areas have been told to get on with for the past two years - well it stinks.

[DGP1]

I would ask the same questions of Area Reps not Unit Reps.
When asked if their Branch has any issues who is going to stand up and go - yes. We are being crapped on because they're cleverer than us. We keep getting outmanoeuvred.

The inability to admit weakness is ironically our greatest weakness.
It's an inevitable product of a structure built on "who can piss the highest".

Strange really that Scotland, the North East, North West, Midlands and uncle Tom Cobbley and all have raised these problems over the last 2 years and yet I seem to have forgotten how many times the big guns have been on hand to reconcile those problems - London and the South East are suddenly faced with the problems that all other areas have been told to get on with for the past two years - well it stinks.

Don't worry, it'll be sorted out in London and then blamed on the rest of the areas...............just like everytime before.

[drb]

I totally agree in regards to the BSI issue occurring in other areas. Some did actually see this happening once the national manager structure had changed too. However I have seen some branches throughout the country,(pre-revision) with,(for example) piss poor terms of references. Those "terms of references" where checked by area and divisional too.

It's not about being "weak",nor s**t or strong branches. It's training. Knowledge is power. Now there has to be an acceptance of this. This is where I believe the structure,or possibly lack of national officers in our union structure has failed.I have seen some of the national officers diaries and the issues are immence.

Rather then point fingers though,perhaps we should be attempting to fix it?

[POSTMAN]

Is it not time now to say enough is enough and pull out......nationally?

[fishtank]

Is it not time now to say enough is enough and pull out......nationally?

Yes.

[Martin Walsh]

Drb I have also sat with reps who have been like the 3 blind mice and cannot see any problems within the area they reprsent. However I have also seen reps take a strong postion which has led to 20 days of strike action and such like.

The reps in London , South East and Anglia divisions along with the Bristol Branch have taken the postion of not discussing, planning or agreeing revisons until their issues have been resolved and the agreement is being honoured.

I personally dont think training is the key issue, lets be honest we have a lot of the same reps who spend weeks on courses and there are still problems in their offices or areas. I agree the flaw was that we are 2 years and 6 months into an agreement and the delivery course is only just being rolled out.

However in terms of why there are fewer reps in workplaces is obviously is it a stressfull postion and one where you get it off the manager and the members and unless you have the right support it is a not a postion where people are queing up to stand for. The growth in reps are in Health and Safety where you have the law on yourside and in Union Learning where you are not face to face with the employer or having arguements with members.

If we are honest , this union has always had about a third of offices which are union strongholds where they will stand up to management and if needed CWU HQs and they normally get the best agreements. Two thirds of offices have either not had problems or the union has been fragmented and accepted too many things which Royal Mail wanted.

Now the million dollar question is how do you strenghted the remaining two thirds without weakening the third.

We all know the problems , not many know the solutions.

Now as for pulling out of the whole agreement , do you really think that will get support and do you really think that Royal Mail will withdraw their plans , like delivery methods , revisons , d2d , walksequecing etc ? I sat in the room of reprsentaives of people from all across the UK and only a few had issues. Now I did have issues along with some. However why did some of those other reprsentaives not have issues why are they not recieving pressure off area reps , branch`s and local reps ? Answers !!

[clashcityrocker]

Now as for pulling out of the whole agreement , do you really think that will get support and do you really think that Royal Mail will withdraw their plans , like delivery methods , revisons , d2d , walksequecing etc ?

Yes it probably would get support.
I doubt if any office that hasn't already had a DMR is looking forward to it.
It won't stop RM's "modernisation" plan but I think they understand that it won't work without the co-operation of the workforce.
The revisions that are going in (at least in my neck of the woods) aren't in line with the BT2010 agreement.
They are not providing 1 in 4 Saturdays. They are not based on realistic and sustainable workloads. They aren't being put to a vote of the members.
They appear to have given up on the outdoor part of the revision to screw as much time/money out of the indoor operation.

RM Scotland do what they like.
CWU Scotland do what they like.

[dvbuk55]

Well what did the local reps survey throw up? Anything earth shatteringly new or the same old same old. You ask for answers to the problem dingo but that is not easy - as for the problem itself that is blatantly obvious. For far too long the CWU has been more and more involved with Royal Mail as a business partner rather than an adversary. It really is time for a full and frank survey of the whole membership, time for the full time officials to get off their arses and go to meet the electorate. The union organisation as it is has failed miserably to engage the rank and file and it's time that decisions were brought back to the membership and not the "Big Brother" attitude. You say that currently only 1/3rd of the union membership is effective - surely that is an indictment in itself. Sadly the membership are treated as a cash cow and even more sadly they allow it. One stark answer is to withdraw subscriptions on a scale unprecedented in recent times, before even more of it is pocketed as "holiday money and pension contributions" that may bring the leadersip to its senses and the way to do it - mobilise the much vaunted strong areas in support of the rest instead of the other way round.

[Martin Walsh]

Clash if you are an office who has already had their £1000 what exactly are they pulling out off ? Those who have had their delivery method revisons what are they pulling out off ? All mail centres have been paid what are they pulling out off ? the same for RDCs and VOCs.

Yes it maybe popular with the members but it dont mean from day 1 they will go back to riding a bike , starting earlier , not doing door to door or receiving sequencing mail.

Equallly what is the issue we are trying to acheive from this appoach is it to get the agreement honoured and back on the table or someother reason.

Dvbuk as someone who has both led and been in disputes , I certainly dont see this partnership or staff assocation that you seem to see. To get this agreement which you said is surrendering too the employee it took a lot of strike action and two days of national strikes.