PT annual leave entitlement

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

Until delivery methods revisions, the basic entitlement was quite clear, as many PT worked shorter hours but over 5 days. They got 22.5 days plus bank holidays as paid leave, satisfying employment law as per https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in that they got at least 28 days per year.

After delivery methods revisions, given there are all sorts of work attendance patterns out there, it all gets relatively complicated... As two simple examples, 22.5 hour PT and 30 hour PT work 7.5 hour days, but over 3 and 4 days per week respectively.

What has been agreed by the CWU as regards to how many days annual leave they will get, given that 3 and 3 day per week attendances will not tie in with all bank holidays throughout the year (eg. Xmas Day is Tuesday this year, a normal attendance day for 22.5 PT, but Boxing Day on Wednesday would normally be a day off)? Are PT staff going to get all bank holidays that fall outside their attendence pattern as extra holiday credits?

I ask because as per https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , a 3-day 22.5 PT is only legally entitled to 16.8 days holiday per year, which can include the bank holidays at the employers' discretion.
On that basis, with there being 8 Bank Holiday days in 2013, are 3-day 22.5 PT only being allocated 8.8 holiday days (just under 3 weeks in their case) for 2013?
Are 4-day 30 PT getting 22.4 paid holiday days in 2013, leaving 14.4 (just under 4 weeks) of holiday they can take at their choosing?
Or is it now "pot luck" as to whether a Bank Holiday falls on a scheduled day of work, in which case you get the day off paid, but Bank Holidays on scheduled days off being ignored i.e "tough luck"?

This issue was not something members were made aware of pre-revision at my depot and definite answers (depending upon what they are) could have had a drastic influence on what the PT staff might have agreed to as regards attendance patterns.

[steven100]

I don't work the normal shift pattern. I only work 2 days, 2 x 8 hours shifts. I've queried them about bank holiday entitlement.

[fishtank]

The issue of holiday entitlement is relatively easy.
If a part-timer works 25 hrs and has 6 weeks holiday that's 150 hrs.
The number of days worked doesn't really matter.

Bank holiday entitlement for working less than 5 days is far murkier but the usual position would be that a part-timer who works less days would get a pro-rata amount depending on the number of days worked,however if you only work three days a week and one of those days is a fixed monday would the business claw back any extra days?
Maybe someone from HR would know....

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

More questions/issues to throw into this mystery of holiday entitlement...

What happens to holiday carried over from the previous year, when the office was pre-revision and the PT worked 5- day weeks rather than 3-day week post-revision?

What about when the depot has its revison part way through the financial year? Lets say the office has its delivery methods revision 6 months into the financial year. For the first 6 months, the PT employee working a 5-day week is enitled to 50% of the 28 days paid leave (14 days). For the 6 months following revisision, the same employee now working as 3-day week is entitled to 50% of the 16.8 days paid leave (8.4 days). So strictly speaking, the minimum under employment law that this employee should get is 22.4 days, which the employer can choose to include bank holidays... But what have Royal Mail agreed with the CWU? What if this PT employee only had 10 days paid holiday during that first 6 months?

Maybe I'm getting worked up over this for nothing, but we are part way through picking holidays and the overall picture about what we are entitled to is about as clear as mud!

It does not help that we are still not changed over to this holiday hours (PSP?) system that is supposed to account for all the shift pattern variances.

[pollyperkins13]

Hi
Interesting thread.

Can someone clear up my situation please

I work P/T - 22hrs a week over Monday / Friday / Saturday.

I pay to have 6 weeks of annual leave ( 18 days ) per year.

What about Bank holiday entitlement ? - 8 BH days this coming year , 5 appear to fall on days I'm scheduled to work, 3 on days off.

Will i get paid for the 5 days im scheduled to work , and will i get 3 days in lieu for the other days on my days off ?

Or am i completely wrong and is it done on a pro-rata basis ...... 22 (p/t)/40(f/t) x 8 = 4.4 days

Any ideas anyone ?

Thanks

[fishtank]

Or am i completely wrong and is it done on a pro-rata basis ...... 22 (p/t)/40(f/t) x 8 = 4.4 days

Any ideas anyone ?

Thanks

That's how it's supposed to be done however Royal Mail don't seem to have a joined up policy over Bank Holidays and less than full week attendance.
Local managers appear to implement their own processes and only change them when found out....nothing new there.

[moaningm]

I'm having the same battle with my line manager currently.

My contract is 21 hours per week over no fixed days, in 4 years I have had ONE back holiday given to me, I was initialy told it was built into your pay, then was told it was built into your annual leave. After a little research and a new manager coming to the office I posed the same question for this time to be told you only get a bank holiday if it falls on your day off, I explained I dont have a fixed day so asssume I have pro rata to which he said No it doesnt work like that. He got a little flustered and then commented he would talk with other managers and get back to me, this was 6 weeks ago or so.

My thoughts are I would get my normal 4 weeks off leave (4 weeks of 21 hours) then on top would get a % of the bank holdays on a pro rata ie 21/39ths of the 9 bank holidays a year?

am I correct in assuming this? Is there anything sunstantial/written I can take to him and shove under his nose as I feel I am being ripped off.

cheers

[POSTMAN]

The holiday entitlement is:
On entry - Four and a half weeks.
After 5 years - Four weeks and 3.5 days.
After 15 years - Five weeks and 1 day.
after 20 years - Six weeks.

It's worked out in hrs now,so moan,you would get 4 1/2 (x 21hrs)weeks AL.
If your day off does not fall on a BH then then you don't get it back,if it does then you do.

[moaningm]

The holiday entitlement is:
On entry - Four and a half weeks.
After 5 years - Four weeks and 3.5 days.
After 15 years - Five weeks and 1 day.
after 20 years - Six weeks.

It's worked out in hrs now,so moan,you would get 4 1/2 (x 21hrs)weeks AL.
If your day off does not fall on a BH then then you don't get it back,if it does then you do.

Thanks for the reply POSTMAN

My issue is that my working days differ from week to week, I have no set standard days, one week I may work Mon,thurs,sat the next Tues Thurs, Fri all which I have no idea until the previous week, so I would not know if I am due to fall on a bank holiday as the rota is only built the week before. In 4 years according I have only fallen on a bank holiday once, as that is all I have received.

cheers again

[bigcol]

Thanks for the reply POSTMAN

My issue is that my working days differ from week to week, I have no set standard days, one week I may work Mon,thurs,sat the next Tues Thurs, Fri all which I have no idea until the previous week, so I would not know if I am due to fall on a bank holiday as the rota is only built the week before. In 4 years according I have only fallen on a bank holiday once, as that is all I have received.

cheers again

It (should) be put into the following years leave so when you are deciding on the next years leave you should already know.

[moaningm]

Thanks for the reply POSTMAN

My issue is that my working days differ from week to week, I have no set standard days, one week I may work Mon,thurs,sat the next Tues Thurs, Fri all which I have no idea until the previous week, so I would not know if I am due to fall on a bank holiday as the rota is only built the week before. In 4 years according I have only fallen on a bank holiday once, as that is all I have received.

cheers again

It (should) be put into the following years leave so when you are deciding on the next years leave you should already know.

Based on my 21 hours working contract how many Public holidays should I be getting?

Is there a Royal Mail HR email address that we can sent such querries to?

Cheers

[POSTMAN]

Thanks for the reply POSTMAN

My issue is that my working days differ from week to week, I have no set standard days, one week I may work Mon,thurs,sat the next Tues Thurs, Fri all which I have no idea until the previous week, so I would not know if I am due to fall on a bank holiday as the rota is only built the week before. In 4 years according I have only fallen on a bank holiday once, as that is all I have received.

cheers again

It (should) be put into the following years leave so when you are deciding on the next years leave you should already know.

Based on my 21 hours working contract how many Public holidays should I be getting?

Is there a Royal Mail HR email address that we can sent such querries to?

Cheers

Us mortals can't contact them by email,it has to come from a rm.com addy.

Being a reserve,and it's the same for full timers as well,what days off you get on a BH weekend is what you get,if it falls on a BH day you get it back ect.
You may get lucky as some do to get either the Sat before or the Tue after as a day off,on a normal run of the mill BH week that is.

[coppamick]

This is on a similar vain, I posted earlier in another thread but still no light really on the issue.

I am on a temp contract of a 22.5 hour week 9 day fortnight, holiday entitlement is pro rata and this means 22 and 1/2 days.

If I want to take two weeks off surely I applied for the 9 working days from my rota claiming the other days as entitled days off. The DOM says it doesn't work like that in Royal Mail we count the whole two weeks, well no you can't as Working Time Directive says that Holiday Entitlement can not be used as rest days or days off which are totally different.

If you apply the DOMs logic then you would lose extra days from your holiday entitlement, others are saying it will go to hours soon and this won't happen which is ludicrous because you are still entitled to the leave either in hours or in days whatever your contract.

Any thoughts please on RM holiday entitlements and how they are applied when booked ?

[moaningm]

"Us mortals can't contact them by email,it has to come from a rm.com addy.

Being a reserve,and it's the same for full timers as well,what days off you get on a BH weekend is what you get,if it falls on a BH day you get it back ect.
You may get lucky as some do to get either the Sat before or the Tue after as a day off,on a normal run of the mill BH week that is.[/quote]"



Thanks again POSTMAN, but how does the context of what the link below fit in with what you have said above, seems a contradiction, in that Part timers should get a % of bank holidays regardless of what days they work.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... on#p505882" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bigcol]

"Us mortals can't contact them by email,it has to come from a rm.com addy.

Being a reserve,and it's the same for full timers as well,what days off you get on a BH weekend is what you get,if it falls on a BH day you get it back ect.
You may get lucky as some do to get either the Sat before or the Tue after as a day off,on a normal run of the mill BH week that is."



Thanks again POSTMAN, but how does the context of what the link below fit in with what you have said above, seems a contradiction, in that Part timers should get a % of bank holidays regardless of what days they work.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... on#p505882" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No contradiction. Percentage gets credited to your leave. It doesn't mean you're actually entitled to get them off.