Is it Job & Finish or work your hours?

[BingBong]

Seen it all today in my office a manager waits till overtime posties come back from their walks and pays a guy 2 hours for doing a bit extra of a walk, but saying that 8 posties went home a hour before their time when I questioned this some say its job and finish, some say you have to work your hours I'm confused? why pay out 2 hours extra then let 8 hours go home? should he not have got a few of them and let them take a bit out each, that's what I call savings. Hope Moya is reading this..

I never come back early now =) I just plod along

[BingBong]

She's got a point though.
If it was your business would you pay out OT and let others go home early?
Would you f**k.You would be bankrupt inside 6 months.
Wouldn't you look to cut staff and re-align workload?
Of course you would.

It shows just how spineless and out of their depth some of these Mickey Mouse managers really are.
They get the cutting staff bit but not the re-aligning bit so some duties cut off and others finish early and the business bleeds money paying OT for the cut offs.
You couldn't make it up really.

It won't last forever,nothing ever does and RM are slowly coming around to the fact that their managers aren't really up to the task.
Privatisation,if and when it comes will bring wholesale changes to the management structure,if i was a manager i would think it would be best to make plans now or the shock is going to be too much for some people.

Yep yep...AND the cut offs keep me in a job =D weeeey

[Lounge Lizard]

Seen it all today in my office a manager waits till overtime posties come back from their walks and pays a guy 2 hours for doing a bit extra of a walk, but saying that 8 posties went home a hour before their time when I questioned this some say its job and finish, some say you have to work your hours I'm confused? why pay out 2 hours extra then let 8 hours go home? should he not have got a few of them and let them take a bit out each, that's what I call savings. Hope Moya is reading this..

"Hope Moya is reading this." - no, she'll be having her breakfast now.
But there's always justsayit@royalmail.com

[tommyrep]

There was lots of packets that has been in the office for days last week yet management decide to let posties go home early and they all have vans now so therefore there is no excuse why they should not have been sent out with a handful.

Jenny.

Ok, you appear to be sounding off against colleagues who are doing OT, AFTER completing their allocated duty or allotted workload. WHY were there parts of a walk still to be delivered ? WHY was there a back log of packets from the previous week ? Is it not a case of insufficient staff to clear the office of mail and packets or was it due to poor management?
It seems to me like your DO may need MORE staff - and there lies the main problem, not the people completing their duty a bit faster than you can. If there is an unfair distribution of work, this is a problem that needs addressed by management and your rep. I feel it was not your place to further highlight and beat a drum on behalf of a management problem ( or failing ) at the expense of running down your fellow work mates. If you feel so strongly about it you should consider joining the management ranks and help make the changes required in re-balancing the workloads more fairly, because your initial post seemed to be a taking a typical RM management stance.
I would have been more sympathetic to your post if you had exposed the real reason for your complaint about colleagues and the offer of it's referal to Moya for consideration, if you had used your post to attack the poor management rather focus the outburst against your colleagues. It came across as a "sour grapes" post. Concentrate on the real culprits responsible for your gripe, it is really not your workmates fault after all - is it ???

[banner18]

I think there are some obvious reasons why managers still allow a form of job and finish.
Many posties might get done early on monday and tuesday, but then go over a little on wed,thurs,friday. So if they go home earlier on the easier days and don't book or cut off on the heavier days, the managers will not mess with this.
Another reason is this, which I see a lot of. When managers put certain individuals onto certain rounds, they may go over or cut off etc.. When they put others on them, nothing is heard and rounds are completed. So if the guys on this round come back early, why is a manager going to rock the boat when he has trouble with the very same duty being completed or done within its time, with other individuals on that duty, on other days?
The problem is that managers are dealing with different individuals with different abilities, different ages, doing duties in different ways. The higher management and the union can come out with fancy words and agreements, but dealing with it on the ground is another thing.
I've said it before, if the upper echelons really wanted to get rid of job and finish, we would have clocking machines but that would pose a threat to universal service and end the "get the job done" culture, which RM couldn't live without and everyone from top to bottom knows that, which is why nothing is done about it.

[Jenny Manchester]

There was lots of packets that has been in the office for days last week yet management decide to let posties go home early and they all have vans now so therefore there is no excuse why they should not have been sent out with a handful.

Jenny.

Ok, you appear to be sounding off against colleagues who are doing OT, AFTER completing their allocated duty or allotted workload. WHY were there parts of a walk still to be delivered ? WHY was there a back log of packets from the previous week ? Is it not a case of insufficient staff to clear the office of mail and packets or was it due to poor management?
It seems to me like your DO may need MORE staff - and there lies the main problem, not the people completing their duty a bit faster than you can. If there is an unfair distribution of work, this is a problem that needs addressed by management and your rep. I feel it was not your place to further highlight and beat a drum on behalf of a management problem ( or failing ) at the expense of running down your fellow work mates. If you feel so strongly about it you should consider joining the management ranks and help make the changes required in re-balancing the workloads more fairly, because your initial post seemed to be a taking a typical RM management stance.
I would have been more sympathetic to your post if you had exposed the real reason for your complaint about colleagues and the offer of it's referal to Moya for consideration, if you had used your post to attack the poor management rather focus the outburst against your colleagues. It came across as a "sour grapes" post. Concentrate on the real culprits responsible for your gripe, it is really not your workmates fault after all - is it ???

I will put this briefly Tommy the rep, idiots coming in early and not taking their break are killing the job, I have seen one guy from our office going out and deliver mail and packets on his break then run and I mean run around his walk so when the floater comes on manager say's "how come you can't complete Jack & Jill are back at 1 pm everyday on that walk" If you owned a shop Tommy the Rep and had Bob working for you till 5pm and because he has stacked all the shelfs quick would you let him go home at 3pm then ring Dan and say "Hi Dan I will give you 2 hours if you come in and rip up the cardboard boxes Bob left today? Managers don't want to upset the apple cart as its another problem for them instead of one
that isn't solved.

[fishtank]

it is really not your workmates fault after all - is it ???

Depends.
Are they starting early?
Are they skipping their breaks?
Are they jumping fences,signing for recordeds,carving the job up,not using delivery methods,dumping D2D.
Are they doing all this so they can get in a bit of OT during duty time.
If they are,it is their fault and even if they aren't they are definitely not helping to sustain jobs.
I don't buy this "maybe they are just faster" pish.

[banner18]

it is really not your workmates fault after all - is it ???

Depends.
Are they starting early?
Are they skipping their breaks?
Are they jumping fences,signing for recordeds,carving the job up,not using delivery methods,dumping D2D.
Are they doing all this so they can get in a bit of OT during duty time.
If they are,it is their fault and even if they aren't they are definitely not helping to sustain jobs.
I don't buy this "maybe they are just faster" pish.

Whether you buy it or not, it can be the case. I have worked with quite a few p & l partners and have found many differences between people. Some just make mistakes and work innefficiently, others are slower at walking. Not saying they aren't up to standard, but some people can be unusually fast at walking and can sustain it and they are not carving up jobs, it is just their way. If you have any doubts about this, just think back to school days and PE etc, how different people's abilities were.
Some people can sort at twice the rate of others, I see it everyday.
For the other poster, it is no good comparing our job with a factory/supermarket environment because most of our work is unsupervised and off site. A clocking system couldn't be married to the universal service being upheld. Supermarkets and the like can just endlessly source labour to shift workload, and even if they were to fail once in a while, it wouldn't break any law, like with RM's case.

[dvbuk55]

I have never subscribed to ghost docket, it is simply a fraudulent act to be paid twice for the same hours - it used to be far more common than it is now. The correct way to go about after duty overtime is precisely that - the work commences after the finish time of the duty - if they don't want to actually work overtimefine recruit more staff.

[fishtank]

Whether you buy it or not, it can be the case. I have worked with quite a few p & l partners and have found many differences between people. Some just make mistakes and work innefficiently, others are slower at walking. Not saying they aren't up to standard, but some people can be unusually fast at walking and can sustain it and they are not carving up jobs, it is just their way. If you have any doubts about this, just think back to school days and PE etc, how different people's abilities were.

I don't buy it banner because nobody asks you to work at a faster pace than what is acceptable.
So the question is why would you do it?
I suppose what i don't buy is the tired old excuse.."it's just me,it's how i am,i can't slow down even if i want to"....now where's my docket?
A "faster" guy doing the job properly can maybe knock 30 minutes off a duty against someone working to standard...not 2 hours.

[liamlayor]

Jenny Manchester- Job and finish is alive and well in our office. What you say is absolutely spot on and if you've got problems where walks aren't finished you are targeted by bullying tactics from managers.

[liamlayor]

Finishing 2 hours early isn't uncommon in our office, and not just on the quiet days. They shouldn't be posties, they should be in the Olympics if they're so good AND do the job properly, or do they???? Our DOM is rubbing his hands , there's no argument against lapsing, and more to come, I'm sure. They must all be fecking idiots.

[wiganpostie]

It depends on whether you use a trolley or not. We were told, unofficially of course, by management to 'use our common sense' with regards to when trolleys should be deployed. So we did. And over the Summer, when it was very light, we were getting finished an hour and a half early. But now that bag weights have gone through the roof (or should that be through the floor?) with Autumn pressure, we're back on the trolleys and cutting off.

[taurus88]

Finishing 2 hours early isn't uncommon in our office, and not just on the quiet days. They shouldn't be posties, they should be in the Olympics if they're so good AND do the job properly, or do they???? Our DOM is rubbing his hands , there's no argument against lapsing, and more to come, I'm sure. They must all be fecking idiots.

The postman who delivers to my house finishes at 11.30am every day (he works the d2d around the busy-ness of the day to ensure the same/similar finish). I know because he's told me before that this is his last street, then he rides home. I don't know what time they start but that seems early. And I know for a fact their manager doesn't care one jot. I've even known guys come on here doing overtime at 12pm. Turns out they've all but done a walk-and-a-half by that time (our street is second to last on the fitting, before twenty-five houses on the main road - I know because I've been in the local office and had a gander). I wish I worked in their office.

[bigcol]

Went in today to do a walk on my day off.

Left a bag and packets back at the office. Saw guy on overtime starting the bag just as I finished my last one.

First back to the office.