Employee Ownership

[LinChong]

Will there be 3 questions on the ballot paper, one about privatisation,one about the Business Model and one about employee ownership or will they all be lumped together so members voting against privatisation are obliged to vote for the Business Model and employee ownership?

I'll just bet there are a few in the Ivory Tower can't wait to experience "inclusion" with the prawn sandwiches, caviar, days at the races, evenings at the opera and expensive wine................well forget that, more a darts tournament and a pint of best bitter but if it's free......................................

When it comes to bribery, food, racing, opera, beer and darts don't deliver unless sex is thrown in. If you want to bribe someone, sex is the name of the game.

[fishtank]

Will there be 3 questions on the ballot paper, one about privatisation,one about the Business Model and one about employee ownership or will they all be lumped together so members voting against privatisation are obliged to vote for the Business Model and employee ownership?.

That's exactly my fear LinChong...
Smuggled in using a Trojan Horse.
Not exactly trade union values is it?

[dvbuk55]

So how would the ordinary membership go about combating such a move? Would we, for example, be given a vote, would we actually be a party to the machinations behind closed doors at all - if it was a vote would it be a free vote or would we be subjected, once again, to a road show advocating acceptance.

To galvanise membership support we will be launching new communications and consideration is being given to both a survey of the membership and a full postal consultative ballot with independent scrutineers. Such a ballot would seek the membership's endorsement of our opposition to privatisation, their support for a new Royal Mail Business Model and the CWU view of the minimum requirements on employee ownership, should the government advance privatisation. The consultative ballot could also be used to gain membership support against the threat of End to End competition.

The approach to membership engagement is currently being developed and a more detailed paper will be placed before the Executive in October 2012.

Would we get to see the business model first, judging by the tone it would appear that the CWU have already seen it, if not fully then certainly in embryo. As for the privatisation issue - is there any doubt? It's not a question of IF but WHEN and as for the fight against it.............well it's not a question of the man in the fight but how much fight in the man and looking at it..............he's out for the count. Is there any real threat from end to end competition and if there is, on national scale, how do you persuade the regulator, in the light of what has gone on in the past, that it would be unfair. What has been more unfair than dumping the final mile on Royal Mail at less than cost and not a word said? What that has done is set a precedent and made profits for other companies to invest whilst RM has had to go cap in hand to borrow money to provide a service for our competitors.

[fishtank]

Would we get to see the business model first, judging by the tone it would appear that the CWU have already seen it, if not fully then certainly in embryo.

We have now agreed that the following principles should underpin a new Royal Mail Business Model and form the basis of any report to a subsequent Policy Forum.
A New Royal Mail Business Model

- The Business Model must put forward a credible alternative to how the Royal Mail Group could access capital in the future without going down the privatisation route.

- There would be a new governance model that created the opportunity for the Union to be involved in developing key business policy before Board decisions are taken. A test for any new governance model would be the need to strengthen collective bargaining, maintain the independence of the Union and enhance CWU workplace organisation.

- The new governance model would support and help define a culture of mutual interest operating at all levels of the organisation.

- The new Business Model to include a company charter that confirms our social obligations in legislation along the lines of the BBC Charter.

- The legislative charter would ensure Royal Mail continues to be an integrated company with the ability to act as an end to end service provider.

- The legislative charter would include the public service provisions for maintaining the Universal Service.

- The legislative charter would ensure that the company operated on the basis of a not for profit model, similar to Network Rail. Profit would be reinvested back into the service and the workforce.

- The new Business Model would operate with single status benefits i.e. managers and employees would be treated equally in relation to bonuses and fringe benefits.

- The new Business Model would take full account of the recommendations of the High Pay Commission.

A more detailed policy paper building on the aforementioned principles will be placed before the Postal Executive in October. The paper will also set out the likely timing of any Policy Forum. In addition, the Union is currently undertaking a crucial piece of work in relation to looking at other ways of the company being able to access capital.

[dvbuk55]

- There would be a new governance model that created the opportunity for the Union to be involved in developing key business policy before Board decisions are taken. A test for any new governance model would be the need to strengthen collective bargaining, maintain the independence of the Union and enhance CWU workplace organisation.

Reading that it doesn't look a million miles away from the Volkswagen scenario.

To my mind we are already half way there. I mean why would the union be involved in looking for ways for Royal Mail to access capital????????? The CWU is practically on its uppers, they should be looking at ways to access capital for themselves. The CWU has truly lost its way IMHO surely it has totally lost sight of trade union values and been seduced into the world of business.

[fishtank]

The CWU has truly lost its way IMHO surely it has totally lost sight of trade union values and been seduced into the world of business.

I think certain people at HQ have.
I think they are so terrified of losing their own position almost anything is on the table if the price is right.
The CWU Postal department has an almost parasitical reliance on Royal Mail for both finance and a reason to exist,the money comes from the membership but without an employer it wouldn't be coming at all,unfortunately the board of Royal Mail are well aware of that,they make noise of doom and disaster,panic takes it's grip amongst those with most to lose and the union heeds the call without stopping to question the source.

The balance of power has been allowed to shift from a reasonable equilibrium to a position of master and servant by allowing apathy and disengagement free reign amongst the membership.
It is not all accidental,apathy suits some in the union just as much as Royal Mail,some have been kept in position for years because of it.

The ongoing shambles in delivery is a case in point,never in 20 odd years of CWU membership have i seen such a cowardly act of....inaction over these revisions,Two years and counting and HQ still sits in the corner with it's finger up it' arse too frightened to admit the obvious...the modernisation plan is a mess screwed up for the most part by management but with some culpability due at HQ's door.....and a head on collision with our employer is inevitable....what we get from Dave is the show must go on.

The new business model is a joke..define a culture of mutual interest ...for who?...board members..CWU HQ and Royal Mail HQ together?...and f**k the members.

[LinChong]

The Post Office Stakeholder Forum on mutualisation takes place in October. Royal Mail members should watch this carefully.

[LinChong]

The Volkswagen model won't work in the UK because the British are not as docile as the Germans.

In Germany, every glass of beer is 30% froth. We don't put up with that sort of bollocks here.

[Tman]

Hmmm, the VW way of doing things, or the twin dinosaurs of RM+ UCW (as it still is, in reality) model... which has been more successful over the last forty years..

Let me ponder on this.

[fishtank]

Hmmm, the VW way of doing things, or the twin dinosaurs of RM+ UCW (as it still is, in reality) model... which has been more successful over the last forty years..

Successful in employee engagement?
Tough call,anecdotal evidence apart i honestly have no idea,i don't know anyone who works for VW apart from the guy who sold me mine...he seemed happy enough.

[dvbuk55]

I'll be 66 in just a few weeks and so it's most unlikely I will see the total collapse of the union but I surely do pity those who will be left in a limbo of uncertainty wondering what will come next - new contracts or else, wage freeze after wage freeze, jam tomorrow when the economy picks up - though we've heard that before. All overseen by the union? It's time they got back to reality.

[hampshireman]

Those that aren't in the union have excluded themselves from having a valid opinion. You don't get £9 + per hour anywhere else for unskilled work without having union representation, or being self-employed with all the uncertainty of that. The union IS the workforce's only genuine mouthpiece - if you don't like the way they operate then do something about it through the democratic routes set up, not carping from the sidelines.

Employee ownership would be a great experiment worthy of a go, but in a capitalist society that needs to destroy all alternative methods of workers generating a living it would be difficult.

So; if you are not in the Union then your opinion is not valid? With comments like that .. do you understand why some do not join?

[fishtank]

The business model makes no sense at all and i can only imagine it was drawn up in a hurry.

This...

- The Business Model must put forward a credible alternative to how the Royal Mail Group could access capital in the future without going down the privatisation route.

Would be hard enough but with this....

- The legislative charter would ensure that the company operated on the basis of a not for profit model, similar to Network Rail. Profit would be reinvested back into the service and the workforce.

Who exactly invests large chunks of fresh capital into a "not for profit"?...Santa Claus?
I like idealists as much as the next man but....

[dvbuk55]

Have they closed all the asylums or is that where these agreements are formulated

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I hope that CWU were watching the Conuservatives Conference this afternoon

New employee-owners will exchange some of their UK employment rights for rights of ownership in the form of shares in the business they work for, any gains on which will be exempt from capital gains tax.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 38&t=47832" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Under the new type of contract, employees will be given between £2,000 and £50,000 of shares that are exempt from capital gains tax. In exchange, they will give up their UK rights on unfair dismissal, redundancy, and the right to request flexible working and time off for training, and will be required provide 16 weeks’ notice of a firm date of return from maternity leave, instead of the usual 8.